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You guys getting higher mileage need to service your secondary

56K views 134 replies 25 participants last post by  MassiveOverkill  
#1 · (Edited)
UPDATE 9/14/2023: Here's the Yamaha Customer Support number:

800-962-7926

If your dealer is in the dark on the required sheave maintenance intervals and procedures before they service your vehicle or if you've had problems because they neglected to PROPERLY service your sheaves, call the above number and submit your case.



UPDATE: There's a new part number for the secondary spring cup. Hopefully the part has been beefed up. The new part number is B4J-17684-00-00, the old part number has BG4 for the first 3 digits

It's not in the manual for periodic servicing but it should be and I would say service it at least at 2K miles. Check out this secondary with only 2800 miles on it (this is not my sheave but another member's and he's not using a machined sheave, just 18 gram weights).

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What you're looking at below is debris from the crumbling secondary spring cup getting onto the belt and turning it into a Brillo pad and eating up the primary fixed sheave.

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If you're not getting the same top speeds as others with a similar setup as yours I would look into your secondary sheave.

Secondary sheave service tutorial:

Yamaha Wolverine X4 9000 miles and 600 hours
 
#2 · (Edited)
He was able to tear down the secondary. He's going to need over $800 worth of parts, basically completely new primary and secondary sheaves. I suggest you all heed my advice and service your secondary on a regular basis and spend the $40 for new seals and spring cup.

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here's what it should look like in good condition

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The center part of the secondary sheave is ferrous metal = rusts easily. Look at the rust color from the pics above. This CVT has never been swamped btw. You mud boggers and U-boat commanders especially need to take note because if this much rust happens on a non-swamped CVT, guess what yours is going to look like?
 
#3 ·
You Yamaha engineers lurking. One idea I have is connect the 4 pin sliders so they're like a U-Joint and one piece, that way they won't rock in the holes. Once those pin sliders get canted sideways you have a progressively worse problem with gouging the spring cup.
 
#4 ·
I have run the CVT setup in my ATV kingquad for well over 5000km cleaned again in one machine and another coming on 7000km with only minimal cleaning of dust etc in the clutch rollers. No rusting of anything anywhere. I or we don't wet water ride but do all year round riding to some extent. I don't quite get what it going on in the Wolverine setup that requires or suggested to be taken apart, serviced every 2000 km.
 
#5 ·
Top is the X2/X4 secondary spring, bottom is your Gen 1 spring

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#6 ·
I expect to see this amount of wear and maintenance on a Polaris but not on a Yamaha.�� Sorry Polaris guys. I couldn’t resist.
Thanks for posting.
 
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#7 ·
4100 miles on this one

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#8 ·
This sure is disappointing. I have a friend with a 2007 Grizzly. 20,000 km (12,000 miles) with original belt and never had the clutch serviced. I know it's a totally different vehicle but it shows the Yamaha reliability I'm accustom to.

I've been seriously looking at the YXZ for my next ride. No CVT transmission may be a good option especially now they have lower gearing and auto clutch. MassiveOverkill thanks for bringing this to our attention.
 
#9 ·
You're welcome but they simply need to beef up the spring cup. It's a $10 part. To expand on your statement, a Grizzy is a 650 lb vehicle vs a nearly 1700 lb vehicle with 50% more torque. Once they beef up that spring cup, I think the service interval can be greatly increased.
 
#11 ·
This CVT design has definitely been tested and proven in the past and was a portion of the selling factor for me when I bought my wolverine. I still like how it functions but it’s obvious when they beefed up the CVT for the 850, this wasn’t expected.

It will be interesting to see if they change anything regarding this going forward. The secondary still functions properly when serviced and maintained but I don’t believe the average owner is interested in tearing into the CVT every 2000 miles (especially X4 owners) as part of there maintenance. If that’s truly necessary, and it sure appears to be so, then this CVT suddenly isn’t a selling factor to me but rather a deterrent. Other CVT styles are not without there problems either but at least they are easier to access for servicing or when trouble arises.

If the 2021 models indeed have a CVT this will certainly be a consideration I’ll be looking at, should the rest of the buggy suit my needs!

Hopefully if it’s a 1000cc engine they won’t just save money by throwing the X model CVT in it! They already put a four wheeler CVT into a side by side and while it does work because the engine isn’t bigger the weight of the vehicle has the CVT running to warm IMO. Unless you run the light weight cheapo donut tires it came with stock. They learned the hard way on the Viking and improved the ducting on the wolverine but not enough. It should have had 4” instead of 3”.
 
#14 ·
Spring cup and rollers. Rollers now flat spot in OEM grease so I would replace them at the 1600 mile routine. Good thing about roller flat spotting is that it's not going to hurt performance much unless you're like me and need max top speed occasionally. It will actually increase low speed performance.

I've made my X4 almost as easy to service as an X2 and gained the X2's extra under-seat storage easy access.

Still not enough owners hitting the high mileage for the first sheave service yet to bitch about it. Many have the $$$ to just let the dealer take care of it.
 
#13 ·
I love the CVT transmission but if I have to have it serviced every 2,000 miles I may purchase something else. I just want to ride at this stage of my life. I have my eye on the YXZ. There are a couple of benefits to a geared transmission. I owned many Honda's that had a geared transmission. I may have to go back to shifting gears.
Again thanks for bringing it to our attention.
 
#15 ·
I doubt its a different CVT then on the Gen 1. Someone posted about at 5000 miles it was still in good shape service wise. I asked my dealer upon buying about that and interval. He indicated around 5000 km here. Which is where I am at now and beyond. Runs and shifts fine.

Other than gong the HUNTERWORKS route of sheave, greaseless washer, rollers etc (too costly for me in Canada). Once every 5000 km is not a deal breaker.

It appears the CVT is the only Yamaha Tech built in the Wolvering (Gen 1 at least). A real bummer IMO but committed to memory for the next time or machine
 
#16 ·
Is the secondary same in X machines as the Gen 1? I know the primary is different. The secondary in Gen 1 appears the same as the Rhinos and Vikings. Which of course is 700 size motors, the photos appear to be the same but hard to tell. If they are the same, then seems the added torque is too much on the part.
 
#18 ·
Nope, also much larger, including a secondary spring that's massive.

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#17 ·
Im curious, you mentioned to replace the spring cup and seals. What seals need to be replaced? I haven't been into mine yet so i dont know. Also it looks like the CVT is kinda a pain to get to even on the X2. Im probably going to make this an upcoming winter project. I should be at just around 1600 miles then give or take. Im betting once you do it a time or 2 its not so bad?
 
#19 ·
#23 ·
MassiveOverkill, one thing I’ve learned about Yamaha over the years is they’re very concerned with durability and reliability of their products. They may not be the most innovative or fastest but will get me home at the end of the day. That’s why I’ve been a loyal customer for more than 30 years.

I think they appreciate feedback they get from people like you.
 
#25 ·
Massive, Thanks for all the helpful information on the secondary. Very enlightening and useful information. Hopefully the new spring cup is built to handle the heavy x2 spring. I'll check with my dealer and see what he has to say about it.
 
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#28 ·
I'm around 2100 miles and while looking at the service manual to get familiar with the procedure, I noticed it called for Bel-Ray Assembly Lube.
I have several types of anti-seize and some with the same characteristics as Bel-Ray, but figured that I would give it a try.
I also notice in the updated sheave doc that is says you can also use Yamaha Ultramatic grease.

Just figured that I would add a pic showing Bel-Ray from the Service Manual as I didn't even consider it.

I know I've watched a video where they change out the weights in the primary and didn't add grease to the weights, just the slide areas.
The manual shows adding 90g of grease to the roller weights.
This had me a little confused, but figured I get a better idea once I get into it and see for myself.
That 3 oz of ultramatic grease just for the roller weights? I know some vids show that for the overdrive weights.
Thoughts or ideas from those that have done this service?

Pics.
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Attachments

#30 ·
https://www.dirtrider.com/community/staff-blogs/bel-ray-assembly-lube/

After seeing the damage from my own and now others, I'm not very confident in Bel Ray. it's a moly-based lubricant, which may have been fine in the day, but is outdated in my opinion.

"Bel-Ray Assembly Lube is designed to protect metal surfaces during engine assembly. It provides long lasting protection against metal-to-metal contact that can lead to galling and seizing when subjected to high loads such as initial engine break-in. The exceptional anti-wear and lubricating properties make Bel-Ray Assembly Lube a must have for today's engine builder."

It obviously not protecting against metal-to-metal contact and plenty of galling/seizing is evident in the failures I'm seeing

"This special formula is unaffected by most acids and alkalis and leaves a coating impervious to moisture for long lasting protection"

I don't buy this either as in the failures you can see moisture has created rust which 'bloomed' and clogged the slider channels.

Not to sound like a salesman but:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31804/new-grease-additive

The above article is provided to pimp out the benefits of ceramic-based nanoparticle lubricants in general.
 
#31 ·
Greaseless is the way to go, Yeah It might wear out faster but Grease also catches all the sand and garbage that get sucked in.
 
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#32 ·
I agree Massive, I first thought "Moly", I have several different anti-siezes that have Moly and a couple matched the ingredients listed in the Bel-Ray.
I didn't think it would be a appropriate for that application myself, but figured I'd order a bottle and see what it's like.
I like the nanoparticle lubricant properties and think that would be better.

DILLIGAF, Tinkseal is going in the cart.....lol.
I'm also going to go greaseless eventually, I want to try the Yamaha big tire weights just for curiosity since my current tire/wheel combo weight is 50 lbs.
The 14 lb steel wheels are terrible, I just haven't gotten around to fixing my alloy beadlocks yet and with my current honey-do list, it may be a while yet.
It will also satisfy another curiosity.
/no cats will be harmed in this experiment...lol/

What are your guys thought on all that grease on the roller weights? Does it sound right?
 
#34 ·
I've never regreased in all the Yamaha vehicles I've owned. I've always converted to greaseless so I can't help here.

all the Yamaha big tire weights do is make your RPM scream from what I read on here. Massive probably has better info.
If you've got 29-30" tires and you don't do much higher-speed riding you may be content with the Big Tire Kit weights, but they're way too light for 28's........unless you're 10 MPH or under. With 50 lb wheel/tire combo and no machined sheave you may find they work OK as well.
 
#33 ·
all the Yamaha big tire weights do is make your RPM scream from what I read on here. Massive probably has better info.
 
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#35 ·
The added wheel weight has had a big hit on top end.
I just need to weight the alloy beadlocks and crunch the numbers to see where that fine line is.
I'll start a thread in the Tire section when I get the numbers.
 
#36 ·
Go with the big tire kit weights since most your riding is under 10mph or get a JBS sheave. It’s made for mudders out your way. Lol
 
#37 ·
I'll go with whatever I decide, you can count on that.
You are also assuming using 'most'.
I do a mix, but there are times as I already explained, maybe you don't get it.
Either way I don't care, I got a good chuckle watching you get your panties in a bunch....lol.

Now back to subject at hand....
Still need to get items such as seals; cup, etc. for when I do the service.
I've got 2100 miles on the clock. I haven't noticed any issues, but it's time to get in there and look for sure.

I notice in Bill's (IIRC) video adding big tire kit, he didn't add any grease so that is what has me wondering.
I'll do more research plus inspect when I get to it.
Building a wolfsnout type of fan atm, just stopped in for a beer....lol
 
#38 ·
I could care less which way you go. It was sarcasm saying going with the big tire kit. I do understand clutching and what weights to use. Just messing around with you since your in JBS muddling country. Lol
 
#39 ·
SKELLEY521 I’m also collecting the parts for the secondary service. I’m at 1970 miles and zero issues but I’m planning on going back in to check and service as needed. I did the HW sheave 400 miles ago (or so) and the box was spotless so I didn’t do the secondary because it looked ok AND I didn’t have the parts. So keep me posted and I’ll do the same since we’re on the same mission.
 
#42 ·
I am at 1722 miles and ordered the parts to service the secondary as well. It’s been about 500 miles since I last tore down the X4 to examine the primary and secondary. I am jealous of the X2 crowd since it is a bit time consuming on the X4. Hopefully things look fine since it sounds unlikely that I will get the spring cup (despite being able to order it yesterday). Tinkseal is on the way too since it sounds like bel-ray isn’t the way to go. If I find anything interesting when I dig into in a couple weeks, I will post the details.


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#40 ·
#41 ·
Ordered mine this morning and Todd shipped it today, be here Tuesday. Cannot get the spring cups now... but I’ll tear it down and inspect it while crossing my fingers!
 
#43 ·
Looks like it’s going to be a while before the parts show up. The email notice I received today indicates that Yamaha has a national back order on the parts I need. It will be early August before things arrive...
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