Getting the coated sheave is ideal as it's a pretty thick application of the dry lube. Believe it or not my prototype sheave didn't get that application and only got the benefit of the coating that was on the HV weights. I would do the HV sliders, especially on a non-coated sheave, but if you're going to use grease anyways, you can stick with the stock sliders.

I personally use Liquid Wrench's dry lube spray (with Cerflon) to touch up all my moving parts and coated sheave after I've serviced them. It's not as good (nor could you apply it as thick) as the dry lube Hunterworks uses, but it's close and certainly better than nothing. It's important you don't get it on the sheave faces but I'll treat all the rubber seals and sleeve inserts with it and work them back and forth before applying grease to them.

I'm a huge fan of dry lube coatings. I use dry lube coating on my AR-15 and Shield 9 mm with excellent results. I don't get it into the combustion chamber and repeated treatments increase its effectiveness.

This is the shot group from my dry-lubed AR-15 (I am also using a nitrided bolt carrier and nickle teflon trigger groups). I don't consider myself a marksman either and rarely get the chance to fire my AR on a regular basis. Once I figure out where my brass is landing, I can put a bucket or blanket in that area and the brass consistently lands in the same spot.

Shot group from my dry-lubed Shield 9mm, only mod is an SS guide rod spring. Obviously I trust my life to the stuff as this is my everyday CCW.

 

Thanks so much for your knowledge. I think Im gonna give the greaseless setup a shot. Seems to make sense.

Nice shooting too and nice CCW choice as well. Im partial though because I carry the same. Shield 9 in FDE. Got it last year when they were doing the $75 Shield rebate and love it. GOOD STUFF!!!

 

So got the cam slides and weights in hand finally and can't wait to get them in. I hoping to do them next week because I'm on vacation from work but also want to do some fall leaf peepin' before all the colors gone so not sure if I want the down time. We'll see though.

 

So got the cam slides and weights in hand finally and can't wait to get them in. I hoping to do them next week because I'm on vacation from work but also want to do some fall leaf peepin' before all the colors gone so not sure if I want the down time. We'll see though. View attachment 71026

So just an update everyone. I got my clutch weights installed yesterday with pleasing results. So far its exactly what I was hoping for. The 18g weights definitely gave be my bottom end punch back as well as the top end when I have extra passengers since putting on the 28" tires. It took all day yesterday to do it and let me tell you its not a horrible job to do but the amount of things you have to disassemble to get to the clutch is kind of a pain but worth it in the end. Sorry I didn't take pictures of the whole process but I was borrowing some good friends of mines garage to do it since we've had rain out here all week and I don't have a garage so I was just trying to work as fast as possible. I still didn't finish until about 1 am last night. We took it out for a middle of the night test session though. Im about 195 lbs andmy buddy is about 275 and it hauled us like it did with the stock tires. I was able to max out the speedo at 51 on a slight up grade on the road with the 28's. VERY NICE!!! It doesn't sound like it's over revving either at top speed. It actually sounds like I have plenty of room to go. So time for this new ECU flash now. I think its exactly what I need to finish her off and end up with the reliable extra performance I'm looking for.....

 

My thoughts on Yamaha's X2/X4 wet clutch.

Reference video:

First of all I'm going to give credit to JBS for discovering that the X2/X4's wet clutch uses rubber bushings like Kawasaki Teryx's wet clutch. I don't like stealing other's information (as my own) and am willing to give credit where credit's due. Here's where we'll disagree. You'll see in James' (JBS) Teryx wet clutch video that he tries to move the clutch shoes in and out and has difficulty doing so vs the Yamaha (Rhino\Gen1\Viking) wet clutch which doesn't use grommets. The problem is that he's doing this on a new clutch that is dry, without the benefit of oil. I'm very confident that the clutch shoe will move in and out much easier with oil present. He sees these grommets hurting wet clutch performance. I see the opposite.

What the hell are you talking about Massive?!?! Basically you have a rubber grommet installed onto a post behind each clutch shoe. Each clutch shoe has a corresponding cylindrical hole cut out to match that rubber grommet. Under centrifugal force the clutch shoe will break-free and engage the clutch drum. The Teryx wet clutch also uses weaker springs than the Yamaha's.

Massive's thoughts: This makes perfect sense and isn't a flaw in my opinion. By using the rubber grommet design, what you're essentially doing is getting a higher stall speed. This can be done by using stronger springs, but if you use stronger springs, you reduce the clamping force exerted against the clutch drum. To refresh your memory the springs are there to hold the shoe back until the clutch is spinning fast enough to engage the drum.

By using a grommet, you can actually use weaker springs = have your cake and eat it too. The grommet raises the stall speed over a non-grommet design. The weaker springs increase force against the clutch shoe and lower stall speed. They equal each other out so you have a normal stall speed, but increased shoe pressure against the clutch drum for less slippage.

The're aren't any holes in the shoes to add weights so forget adding slugs to your wet clutch unless you're going to drill those holes yourself (which I don't recommend), and how much benefit would you be gaining over the weight of the material removed from drilling that hole in the first place?

What I do see as far as modding is changing either the thickness/size and/or compound of that rubber grommet to increase/decrease your stall speed. Removing it would lower your stall speed/shoe engagement. Also consider that synthetic oil could affect the slipperiness of that grommet, allowing the shoe to slip out easier.

One con: you better do timely oil changes as I can see those grommets eventually breaking down/wearing out and you don't want that crap running through your engine.

 

I'm getting some 19 gram weights to test with. The 21 gram weights I'm using now are just a little too heavy for my liking. 18's are actually 17.5 grams so I think 19's will be a sweet spot weight for slightly bigger tires and top end retention.

 

Massive are you considering the Weller racing ecu? Potentially with the added fuel 21 gram weights would work out great....

 

Looking forward to a review. I was really wanting to hold out for something like the Dynojet Power Vision. I would like to be able to adjust things myself or have it tuned locally. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. The Weller Racing ecu maybe our only option.

 

I'm wondering if the Weller Racing ecu to remove the speed limiter combined with the Power Commander they now have for the X4 for fuel adjustment would achieve that. Would be an ideal setup. The ecu of course is up front and I've researched the Power Commander and it hooks to the injectors and the controller for adjustment attaches near the oil tank. So its entirely by the motor. I don't see why they couldn't be used together. New stuff to research....:cool2:

 

I'm doing some research on my possible X4 purchase and upgrading tires and clutching. Right now I'm used to my RZR XP1K rolling on 32s for trail riding, so will be doing 28s at least and maybe 30s. Is there a link to a thread that talks about the pros and cons of the different sheaves available? I have watched some of the YouTube videos from JBS, but I have dealt with hunterworks in the RZR world, so would like to see some more opinions on all the offerings.

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The main benefit to a Hunteworks' sheave is that it uses dry lube and specially-formulated plastic rollers in order to eliminate the grease the stock rollers ride in. The system isn't totally greaseless as you still have to service the primary\secondary shaft collars with grease, but it's still much easier to service than a stock greased setup and more-importantly if you swamp your CVT, you can simply rinse out the greaseless system and get running again vs the greased system you run a high probability of being done for the day as the chances are great that in addition the grease becoming contaminated, there's will also be grease on your belt\sheaves which isn't easy to clean off in the field.

As far as performance. That's a never ending battle with the truth being that they're both better than stock and are probably within 5% of each other (you won't hear James or his minions state that). Todd from Hunterworks was the first to use OD rollers in a SxS application and abandoned it for the greaseless system. JBS has been banned from this forum as well as most other forums that he doesn't run. Same thing goes for FB groups. He and his minions accuse everyone else as being haters and generally resort to childish behavior, and are incapable of holding a civilized conversation, which is the true reason why they've been banned everywhere as well as other manufacturers cutting ties with them due to their consistent unprofessional behavior.

I've had hopes that James would change his ways and even reached out to his son to handle PR, but that was a futile attempt as JBS only cares about JBS and won't engage in discussion unless it's in JBS best interests.

Here are just some recent examples of JBS looking out for JBS and spreading lies. Someone in the JBS camp had a moment of clarity and deleted these YT comments, but not before I took screenshots.

 

I can answer that, no one has one and doubt anyone would post one, we don't want to give away our technics.

 

All the more reason not to stay stock!

 

The roller flat spotting, which should be renamed to 'scalping' for the X2/X4 is caused by the roller reaching the end of the cam plate where the sharp edge cuts the roller when you decelerate and the roller returns back into the sheave.

This picture the foreground cam plate channel is out of focus but if you look at the one behind it you can see how sharp it is and you can see that my rollers are getting full travel from the wear marks.

Here I've taken a file at 45 degrees to remove the sharp edge.

For those of you who think OD weights won't get scalped, think again, although it's not from bad castings. My roller channels were nice and smooth and even if they weren't to begin with, they would have been worn smooth and scalping still occurred.

If all you do is low speed riding you may never see this. Grease doesn't mitigate it as I've had it happen on my stock vehicle with OEM rollers and grease before I switched to HV weights and a machined sheave and obviously JBS always uses grease. This is much more likely to happen with a machined sheave as the weights are pushed closer or even past the cam plate edge.

 

Putting a file on that edge as Todd says should prevent this hopefully.

 

InfidelMT, if you don't want to file your cam plate that's fine. OD weights aren't immune to it so enjoy your scalped OD weights. It's not something unique to a Hunterworks setup

 

One thing I want to reiterate with more doing sheave work is the primary bearing support bracket or spider cage... this piece:

If you re-grease/repack the bearing, install it a couple times fully seated over the primary shaft and remove it and make sure the hydraulic pressure doesn't push the rubber seal up, bending the seal retainer bracket.

There are two thin-walled positioning sleeves installed on the longer bolt locations. Those sleeves are a tight fit and it's possible to install the bearing support cage skewed because they go in cockeyed. I now grease them so they go in a little easier into the holes. When I'm installing the bearing support cage I'll put it into place and gently tap it into place with a rubber mallet on the center to make sure it's fully seated before installing the bolts. I then install the bolts by hand and they should bottom out all the way with little resistance and it then only takes a couple turns of my ratchet to tighten them.

If you don't bottom out that bearing support cage first and use the bolts to seat it, that's when you have the possibility of installing the bearing support cage cockeyed. The results of either the rubber seal\retainer being cockeyed or the bearing support cage being cockeyed can mean an early wet clutch death. On my X4 one dowel was stuck in the cage and one was stuck in the CVT metal boss so it made it harder to install correctly. The sleeves are so thin, handling them with a set of pliers mars them up.

 

One thing I want to reiterate with more doing sheave work is the primary bearing support bracket or spider cage... this piece:

If you re-grease/repack the bearing, install it a couple times fully seated over the primary shaft and remove it and make sure the hydraulic pressure doesn't push the rubber seal up, bending the seal retainer bracket.

There are two thin-walled positioning sleeves installed on the longer bolt locations. Those sleeves are a tight fit and it's possible to install the bearing support cage skewed because the go in cockeyed. I now grease them so they go in a little easier into the holes. When I'm installing the bearing support cage I'll put it into place and gently tap it into place with a rubber mallet on the center to make sure it's fully seated before installing the bolts. I then install the bolts by hand and they should bottom out all the way with little resistance and it then only takes a couple turns of my ratchet to tighten them.

If you don't bottom out that bearing support cage first and use the bolts to seat it, that's when you have the possibility of installing the bearing support cage cockeyed. The results of either the rubber seal\retainer being cockeyed or the bearing support cage being cockeyed can mean an early wet clutch death. On my X4 one dowel was stuck in the cage and one was stuck in the CVT metal boss so it made it harder to install correctly. The sleeves are so thin, handling them with a set of pliers mars them up.

Thanks Massive. This good info before I install my new sheave. I was planning on using my cordless driver and after reading this, I won’t be.


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Will Griffin's test results (he's not on WolverineForums unfortunately)

 

Looking at this again, I have a question.
How did it get quieter at idle?

 

That is a GREAT wright up.
Thanks, Will

 

Just finished my install of the Hunterworks sheave and 18gr weights tonight as well. It just turned midnight here so I won’t be running it until tomorrow sometime. Great service and fast shipping. Got it Monday but didn’t have time to install until tonight. Total time was about 2.5 hours. Not bad.


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Just finished my install of the Hunterworks sheave and 18gr weights tonight as well. It just turned midnight here so I won’t be running it until tomorrow sometime. Great service and fast shipping. Got it Monday but didn’t have time to install until tonight. Total time was about 2.5 hours. Not bad.


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Looking forward to hearing your review.

 

I just took it for a burn down the road. I did three runs. Two into the wind (about 5-10mph) and one with the wind. I’ve got the full glass OEM windshield and the rear OEM glass. I used the gps app on my phone.
1st run 63
2nd run 63
3rd run 64
All seem consistent with others. Cruising at 30-40 is definitely quieter and cruising at 50 is no problem at all. Almost feels like half throttle although it’s not.
Throttle response is greatly improved. Stomping on it at 20-25 breaks the +28” tires very easily. With the little bit of running I’ve done, I’d say I’m very happy with the results and it’s a pretty easy mod. Cheaper then the pipe as well but I’m glad I’ve got both [emoji4]


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Guess who's back to 22 gram weights. Timmi has stated multiple times that he doesn't do a whole bunch of high speed riding and mostly low speed stuff so why the change after a whole year? Timmi's been running stock tires for over a year. It's taken JBS over a year to figure out heavier weights are better.

I've been preaching this for almost a year now:

https://www.wolverineforums.com/for...2-x4-cvt-sheaves-wet-clutch/21066-wolverine-x2-x4-clutch-mods-2.html#post271136

JBS camp is also making fun at Todd selling his X2 with 50 or so miles on it. These clowns don't realize that a large portion of the sheave testing has been done on my X4, with over 7K miles. That's literally 600% more mileage than Timmi and James vehicles combined.

Here's JBS thread pimping out 16 gram weights:

https://hotrodforums.net/forums/showthread.php?7190-Yamaha-X4-14g-vs-16g-with-27-quot-tires

With James\JBS they always use half-lies such as this: "tincan says 14g is faster...he must do it by feel...lol" What James doesn't disclose is that Tinken was advocating for 14 gram weights in the Wolverine Gen 1 708cc, NOT the X2/X4.

Same JBS lies with stating they were the first to mill the sheave towers. What James doesn't say is that they ONLY milled the sheave towers to accomodate a different cam plate on the older Rhinos:

https://hotrodforums.net/forums/showthread.php?6954-Disclaimer&p=122982&viewfull=1#post122982

And finally James is always spouting how HW steals his ideas and copies him. This moment, permanently etched in history should make it crystal clear where JBS refers to 'Hunterworks OD weights':

 

Well, I'm writing this with some regret, but I always find that information can be valuable even if it is not what you want to hear. I have installed my Hunterworks sheave with 20gr weights (as suggested) on my totally stock X2. I filed the cam plate (as suggested) to prevent/minimize the scrape effect. I also sent out my ECU for the Weller reflash. I installed it all without issue and took it for a test run. I ended up moving from the stock 83km/h (51.5mph) to 92km/h (57.2mph). An improvement of 9km/h (5.7mph) increase in speed. I thought this was not that good as I was expecting more. I took it all apart, checked out the install (all good) and reinstalled again. Test runs came to the exact same conclusion. Did I get an increase in speed - yes, approx 10%. Did I get benefits of the reflash such as adjusted cooling fan cycle temps removal of speed limiter - yes. Being from Canada, with the exchange and shipping and customs fees, I paid around $1000 for this increase and still didn't get to the magical 100km/h (62mph) mark. I am overall disappointed, but it is what it is.

I do want to emphasize a couple things - Todd at Hunterworks did reply to my questions and he feels confident that there is no sheave issue. Kyle from Weller Racing helped me out with my questions and helped me with other ECU related asks. MassiveOverkill also replied to my PM's and offered some ideas. All these guys tried to help me out. In the end, this is my findings - I did not hit the mark with my set up. Thought some people might benefit from my end result.

 

Well, I'm writing this with some regret, but I always find that information can be valuable even if it is not what you want to hear. I have installed my Hunterworks sheave with 18gr weights (as suggested) on my totally stock X2. I filed the cam plate (as suggested) to prevent/minimize the scrape effect. I also sent out my ECU for the Weller reflash. I installed it all without issue and took it for a test run. I ended up moving from the stock 83km/h (51.5mph) to 92km/h (57.2mph). An improvement of 9km/h (5.7mph) increase in speed. I thought this was not that good as I was expecting more. I took it all apart, checked out the install (all good) and reinstalled again. Test runs came to the exact same conclusion. Did I get an increase in speed - yes, approx 10%. Did I get benefits of the reflash such as adjusted cooling fan cycle temps removal of speed limiter - yes. Being from Canada, with the exchange and shipping and customs fees, I paid around $1000 for this increase and still didn't get to the magical 100km/h (62mph) mark. I am overall disappointed, but it is what it is.

I do want to emphasize a couple things - Todd at Hunterworks did reply to my questions and he feels confident that there is no sheave issue. Kyle from Weller Racing helped me out with my questions and helped me with other ECU related asks. MassiveOverkill also replied to my PM's and offered some ideas. All these guys tried to help me out. In the end, this is my findings - I did not hit the mark with my set up. Thought some people might benefit from my end result.

Sorry to hear your situation.
I can hit 57 mph and all I did was 29" tires and currently 20 gram weights.

 

Stroodle, 18 gram weights are too light for stock size (26") tires in my opinion. Todd is offering those who bought a sheave a 2nd set of weights at cost. I'm hoping he'll honor this price even if you buy the weights after the initial purchase. I'd really like to see you give 20 or even 22 gram weights a shot. Even clean up your stock weights and throw them in there to see.

 

MassiveOverkill - I should try that - I know you suggested that in the PM, I didn't try the OEM weights. It kind of sucks pulling everything apart to get at the clutch, but it would be nice to get that speed up! I'm heading out on a giant hunting trip soon, I will try and get to this before the trip and get back to you all. Thanks for the quick reply

 

MassiveOverkill - did you give me the handle under my user name??? Ha ha! Seems fitting for my issue!!!

 

That name changes as your post count goes up, start looking at other folks, some of them are really fitting and funny at times.