[MassiveOverkill]

Fixed Primary stock wear marks:

Fixed Primary first cut wear marks, can still mill some more:

Good for an extra 3 MPH (barely hit 56 MPH). Unfortunately we received 10 inches of snow so I'll have to wait for better weather to safely try again. Will disclose weights used at a later date.

Even with this first cut, she's like a bulldozer plowing snow compared to stock and I couldn't restrain myself:

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Those of you who have upgraded and still have your stock rollers laying around, please inspect them for me. I just inspected my stock rollers (ran in grease from the factory) and I don't like what I'm finding (what you're looking at is flat spotting):

My X4 has been driven in sub 40 F temps for it's 870 some miles. Most of that has been low speed with occasional plowing, most of the plowing in 20-30 F temps.

UPDATE 2: the flat spotting is due to the rollers being scalped when they reach the end of the cam plate ramp, which has a sharp edge.

UPDATE (disregard this update): I believe the flat spotting is probably due to my secondary spring cup being gouged by the guide pins:

https://www.wolverineforums.com/for...vt-sheaves-wet-clutch/25412-x4-3000-mile-sheave-service-also-applicable-x2.html

 

[MassiveOverkill]

I really don't care about us being the first to hit 60 MPH in a Wolverine X4, but the fact that URBS isn't and that Timmmaaay and Jamie will have a coronary makes my day. Maybe they'll shut up, just for a little while. I hit 63 MPH, but since I don't have it on video (yet) we'll concede to only doing 60 MPH. This is our very first sheave machining attempt. Needless to say, you can get results by testing, or doing research, or both. Obviously we did more research on our first attempt than the other guys despite them having months of testing (as well as an X4 in-house) head start ahead of us.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Excellent!! You guys are def taking care of business!
Can't wait for the X4 sheave to be available from you guys.

Thanks, at this point I'm worried about belt cooling (scratch that, after 3000 miles I'm no longer concerned about it). My stability concerns at those speeds aren't as big. I don't know what it is but she seemed stable once you get past what seemed like a boundary layer.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

You can see it hit 60 a little better in this run. She'll hold 55 MPH pretty easily without straining. Best part, listen to how quiet she is going around 45 MPH. Even though there's room for improvement, I'm really happy with the top speed, cruising speed, and noise improvements.

I don't know about you guys, but my goal is to be able to keep up with car traffic on highways, not drag race other SxS'. 65 MPH is a reasonable speed to not hold up traffic. I don't need to get there in record time but if she'll hold that speed sustained, that's good in my book. Are any of you looking for higher top speed wanting it so you can race your buddies or is your goal like mine, to keep up with car traffic as well as cruise at lower RPMs, improve fuel economy, and lower noise while cruising between 45-55 MPH while on paved roads?

In this run I have the CVT cover and paneling reinstalled, whereas they were removed in the first video.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

She'll still do 60, but not as easily with my new 27" Tusk Terrabites, time for some slightly lighter roller weights:

 

[MassiveOverkill]

I got around to getting the primary/secondary sheave ratio, which is roughly 2.66:1

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up. Todd has been inundated with orders from his new Polaris belts so until things slow down in that market, we may not see a Hunterworks X2/X4 sheave for a bit. The Yamaha fan in me is greatly disappointed, but the businessman in me fully understands. When you have to get out 30 orders a day for belts in addition to the other products you sell, that's a lot of orders to get out and doesn't leave much time for much else if you're a 1-2 man operation. The fact that there's not much labor involved in selling belts like there is in machining sheaves, it's a no-brainer what you need to focus on for time and $$$ to pay the bills.

Couple that with the market for those that want to go 60 MPH in their X2/X4's..........the market just isn't there. Sure getting more grunt down low is great, but it's not like it's a necessity like the Viking/Gen 1 Wolverine. You add bigger tires/do mudding in an X2/X4 you simply use low more often, which was barely used if you were stock. Adding lighter weights (14 grams is too light btw) and is a cheap/sufficient solution if you only need more low end and don't care about top end.

Make sure you check out my 3K mile sheave service thread: https://www.wolverineforums.com/for...vt-sheaves-wet-clutch/25412-x4-3000-mile-sheave-service-also-applicable-x2.html

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Just some recommendations based on my experience so far (this is using HV greaseless weights, stock secondary spring, no shim, and swiss-cheeesed air filter lid):

26" stock tires:

Stock 22 gram or 21 gram weights are fine for trail riders. If you're using SpeedoHealer, you need to stick with heavier weights if you want maximum top speed......60 MPH plus

27" tires:

18 gram weights give you plenty of torque but your gas mileage will suffer. Mine went down to 15 MPG. With machined sheave and SpeedoHealer you'll still be able to hit 60 MPH
21 gram weights are great cruising weights. You'll notice a little torque loss. Gas mileage is great at 19 MPG. With machined sheave and SpeedoHealer you'll be down to 58 MPH

With 18 gram weights my engine temps ran hotter vs the heavier/near stock 21 gram weights.

19-20 gram weights I think will be perfect for the non-mudder. Will try and experiment with this weight next.

28" tires:

16-18 gram weights depending where you want the majority of your power. Choose 16 if more low end is desirable, choose 18 if more top end is desirable (beyond stock speed limiter).

Anything bigger and chances are you're running portals, which already has built-in gear reduction.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Some more data for you

Stock belt width is 35 mm
Minimum width is 34.5 mm

My belt after 3K miles was 34.8 mm

Figure the math and my wear was .1 mm per 1500 miles so you can expect at least 7500 miles on an X2/X4 belt based on my results remembering that I do a bunch of high speed running.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Here you go:

https://www.hunterworks.com/inc/sdetail/64856/34145

For the cam plate sliders, you can get them here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-X2-...iders-Set-8/263430167631?epid=9008334751&hash=item3d55a95c4f:g:upcAAOSwMGVaVtft

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Just to update you all on the misinformation that Timmy is spreading around. The majority of my increase in top speed is from a machined sheave, NOT SpeedoHealer. Now Timmy may be talking about the JBS X2/X4 sheave, but the sheave that Michael cut for me gets me 6-8 MPH over the stock sheave. With SpeedoHealer alone on stock tires and stock sheave, I was only able to get to 53 MPH via GPS from 49 MPH stock no matter what roller weights I used (stock 22 gram were best)

For 2019, Yamaha actually recalibrated the ECU so it's accurate with the stock tires so GPS speed is increased from 49 to 51 MPH with no mods, so SpeedoHealer alone on a stock 2019 X2/X4 is only going to get you 2 MPH increase.

So to summarize: You need SpeedoHealer to get past the speed limiter. ECU hack so far has failed. You can go with larger tires\lighter weights, but that's only going to get you so far, maybe 55-56 MPH and your rev limiter is going to kick in. You need a machined sheave to get beyond that and you need to stay on the heavier side of your roller weight selection to attain max top speed.

I'll also add this non-partisan, politically incorrect statement. For the vendors: Alba, Hunterworks, JBS, etc. the profit is in ECU flashing, so without success in hacking the ECU, there's not going to be much interest in machining a sheave that will take advantage of increased top speed a flashed ECU is going to provide. A machined sheave's biggest benefit is getting you increased top end. Increased low end can be achieved via shims and/or lighter primary weights alone. Selling the alternative solution: SpeedoHealer doesn't have much profit in it.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Ok. I was looking for a section for the X2/X4. So these are listed in the original wolverine/viking section and in the Rhino section. They must be have the same outer dimension as the oem. I am by no means an expert at these clutch setups and I would feel more comfortable if they had a listing in a section for our X4 AND X2's.

If/when he does machined sheaves for the X2/X4 you'll probably see that section added but yes, the rollers for the previous gen and current gen are the same dimensions and in most cases, same weight.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

So if that is the case then I should be able to run EPI weights if I wanted to stick with metal weights. These say that they are for all Viking and Rhino models. They don't say wolverine 700 though. They do have a clutch kit though for the Wolverine 700 as well as Rhino and Viking. So I guess they all use the same weights. They also have many different sizes to choose from. 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20g and so on up to 32g.

https://epiperformance.com/roller-weights-18-grams-we241018/

I suppose you could. You realize that you'll have to transfer your plastic sleeve over to those metal inserts? If you don't you run the risk of gouging your sheave. I take it you want to stick with grease? After seeing my stock weights flat-spot WITH grease, I wouldn't want to go back to stock weights.

https://www.wolverineforums.com/for...-x2-x4-cvt-sheaves-wet-clutch/21066-wolverine-x2-x4-clutch-mods.html#post218409

 

[MassiveOverkill]

The X2 big tire kit is 16 grams vs the X4 big tire kit which is 14 grams. If you like your OEM grease, you can use the HV weights with grease. The HV weight material is superior to the plastic Yamaha uses on the OEM weights.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Getting the coated sheave is ideal as it's a pretty thick application of the dry lube. Believe it or not my prototype sheave didn't get that application and only got the benefit of the coating that was on the HV weights. I would do the HV sliders, especially on a non-coated sheave, but if you're going to use grease anyways, you can stick with the stock sliders.

I personally use Liquid Wrench's dry lube spray (with Cerflon) to touch up all my moving parts and coated sheave after I've serviced them. It's not as good (nor could you apply it as thick) as the dry lube Hunterworks uses, but it's close and certainly better than nothing. It's important you don't get it on the sheave faces but I'll treat all the rubber seals and sleeve inserts with it and work them back and forth before applying grease to them.

I'm a huge fan of dry lube coatings. I use dry lube coating on my AR-15 and Shield 9 mm with excellent results. I don't get it into the combustion chamber and repeated treatments increase its effectiveness.

This is the shot group from my dry-lubed AR-15 (I am also using a nitrided bolt carrier and nickle teflon trigger groups). I don't consider myself a marksman either and rarely get the chance to fire my AR on a regular basis. Once I figure out where my brass is landing, I can put a bucket or blanket in that area and the brass consistently lands in the same spot.

Shot group from my dry-lubed Shield 9mm, only mod is an SS guide rod spring. Obviously I trust my life to the stuff as this is my everyday CCW.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

My thoughts on Yamaha's X2/X4 wet clutch.

Reference video:

First of all I'm going to give credit to JBS for discovering that the X2/X4's wet clutch uses rubber bushings like Kawasaki Teryx's wet clutch. I don't like stealing other's information (as my own) and am willing to give credit where credit's due. Here's where we'll disagree. You'll see in James' (JBS) Teryx wet clutch video that he tries to move the clutch shoes in and out and has difficulty doing so vs the Yamaha (Rhino\Gen1\Viking) wet clutch which doesn't use grommets. The problem is that he's doing this on a new clutch that is dry, without the benefit of oil. I'm very confident that the clutch shoe will move in and out much easier with oil present. He sees these grommets hurting wet clutch performance. I see the opposite.

What the hell are you talking about Massive?!?! Basically you have a rubber grommet installed onto a post behind each clutch shoe. Each clutch shoe has a corresponding cylindrical hole cut out to match that rubber grommet. Under centrifugal force the clutch shoe will break-free and engage the clutch drum. The Teryx wet clutch also uses weaker springs than the Yamaha's.

Massive's thoughts: This makes perfect sense and isn't a flaw in my opinion. By using the rubber grommet design, what you're essentially doing is getting a higher stall speed. This can be done by using stronger springs, but if you use stronger springs, you reduce the clamping force exerted against the clutch drum. To refresh your memory the springs are there to hold the shoe back until the clutch is spinning fast enough to engage the drum.

By using a grommet, you can actually use weaker springs = have your cake and eat it too. The grommet raises the stall speed over a non-grommet design. The weaker springs increase force against the clutch shoe and lower stall speed. They equal each other out so you have a normal stall speed, but increased shoe pressure against the clutch drum for less slippage.

The're aren't any holes in the shoes to add weights so forget adding slugs to your wet clutch unless you're going to drill those holes yourself (which I don't recommend), and how much benefit would you be gaining over the weight of the material removed from drilling that hole in the first place?

What I do see as far as modding is changing either the thickness/size and/or compound of that rubber grommet to increase/decrease your stall speed. Removing it would lower your stall speed/shoe engagement. Also consider that synthetic oil could affect the slipperiness of that grommet, allowing the shoe to slip out easier.

One con: you better do timely oil changes as I can see those grommets eventually breaking down/wearing out and you don't want that crap running through your engine.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

I'm getting some 19 gram weights to test with. The 21 gram weights I'm using now are just a little too heavy for my liking. 18's are actually 17.5 grams so I think 19's will be a sweet spot weight for slightly bigger tires and top end retention.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Massive are you considering the Weller racing ecu? Potentially with the added fuel 21 gram weights would work out great....

I'll hopefully have a unit for testing if weather permits. I'm going to try 19 gram weights. 21 were nice but just a little bit laggy and lowered my top end by 1-2 MPH.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

The main benefit to a Hunteworks' sheave is that it uses dry lube and specially-formulated plastic rollers in order to eliminate the grease the stock rollers ride in. The system isn't totally greaseless as you still have to service the primary\secondary shaft collars with grease, but it's still much easier to service than a stock greased setup and more-importantly if you swamp your CVT, you can simply rinse out the greaseless system and get running again vs the greased system you run a high probability of being done for the day as the chances are great that in addition the grease becoming contaminated, there's will also be grease on your belt\sheaves which isn't easy to clean off in the field.

As far as performance. That's a never ending battle with the truth being that they're both better than stock and are probably within 5% of each other (you won't hear James or his minions state that). Todd from Hunterworks was the first to use OD rollers in a SxS application and abandoned it for the greaseless system. JBS has been banned from this forum as well as most other forums that he doesn't run. Same thing goes for FB groups. He and his minions accuse everyone else as being haters and generally resort to childish behavior, and are incapable of holding a civilized conversation, which is the true reason why they've been banned everywhere as well as other manufacturers cutting ties with them due to their consistent unprofessional behavior.

I've had hopes that James would change his ways and even reached out to his son to handle PR, but that was a futile attempt as JBS only cares about JBS and won't engage in discussion unless it's in JBS best interests.

Here are just some recent examples of JBS looking out for JBS and spreading lies. Someone in the JBS camp had a moment of clarity and deleted these YT comments, but not before I took screenshots.