[SKELLEY521]

Thanks.
I have 2660 miles.
Pic or it didn't happen....lol.
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[SKELLEY521]

Cleaned and mic'd Secondary shaft journal.
.982"
Mic'd Secondary 'bearing' surface. Not a actual bearing, but where it runs. I got the Snap gauge to repeat 3 times so it's a solid number.
.984"
So .002" clearance.
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[SKELLEY521]

Secondary rear shaft journal was a little harder to get w/o removing inner cover.
I need to verify these numbers. I had them in my head and my son needed a hand before I could write them down.
/I will verify and add later/

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[SKELLEY521]

Starting the Tinkseal lubing today.
Massive does a good video here.
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[SKELLEY521]

Learning a few things today so I wanted to share. So this post is the learning curve.
This will all be cleaned up and redone.
First is the Cling wrap. Here is a pic of first attempt. Looks good, but I don't like it. I used 2 long pieces of wrap, cut X in center and X wrapped.
This stuff is cheap so don't be stingy with it. I plan to wrap the piss out of the sheave halves and use scissors to trim just inside the rivet heads. I'll get new pics later.
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Yamaha calls for 5g (1.2 teaspoons) on the inside of the sheave shafts. I used measuring spoons to get a feel for amounts. I applied the 5g to the insides.
It was pretty close, probably a lot less than I actually removed during cleaning. The sheave shaft doesn't contact the driven shaft in this area, so I can only conclude it's to weep out if needed with centrifugal forces.
There's no way that old grease could be a benefit in this way as it just plugged up the holes and filled voids inside.
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Pic of Driven Shaft. The inner fixed sheave area that calls for grease is between the drive splines and outer journal area. It's lower than the journal which lead me to the centrifugal force idea.

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I pretty much followed Massive's video and didn't measure quantities. I am using the old seals (back order), so tolerances are not as tight.
Once I got the sheaves greased and cup installed, I worked the sheaves back & forth and kept getting a line of Tinkseal between the sheaves.
The more I worked the sheave while cleaning between them, the line of Tinkseal was getting smaller each time. Again, new seals would've probably eliminated a lot if not most of this.
I did install the new O-rings.

I finally decided to take everything apart to see & learn what the lube pattern is looking like.
Here are the pics.
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Grease line is smaller and I could've probably continued working and cleaning until it was eliminated, but like I said, I wanted to learn the lube pattern.
I will completely clean everything up and just for curiosity, measure/apply the grease focusing on the areas that show up in the lube pattern.
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Notice the lube pattern in pic below. That bottom clean area measures 3/8" and the top area is 3/4" while the grease is collected between them.
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Time for a beer and back to cleaning....lol


Edit: added pic

 

[TINKEN]

I pretty much followed Massive's video and didn't measure quantities. I am using the old seals (back order), so tolerances are not as tight.
Once I got the sheaves greased and cup installed, I worked the sheaves back & forth and kept getting a line of Tinkseal between the sheaves.
The more I worked the sheave while cleaning between them, the line of Tinkseal was getting smaller each time. Again, new seals would've probably eliminated a lot if not most of this.
I did install the new O-rings.

New seals won't leak and the TinkSeal will make them last a very long time. Wipe the sheave faces with acetone before placing the belt. :thinkerg:

 

[SKELLEY521]

Ok let's finish up this Secondary Sheave already
I took a lot of pics along the way so it may be boring for some, but should help anyone to be able to successfully do it yourself.
First I cleaned up about 98% of the Tinkseal. Sheaves were cleaned once already, but I wanted to check if recommend grease quantities worked effectively.

I wish I had the new seals, it would've made life a lot easier, but back order is where they are at.
O-rings are cheap and absolutely worth replacing also.

Prepped Sheave.
Wrapped cling wrap around in multiple directions and last few wraps I went around the circumference. First I trimmed inside the rivet heads, but decided it would save me steps later and be easier to remove if I trimmed outside.
Here is a pick of the 2.5g (1/2 teaspoon) packed inside the fixed sheave.
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Here are the wrapped sheave pics. Much easier to work with like this.
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Here is a pic of the center groove in the movable (between arrows). I focused putting the other 2.5g (1/2 teaspoon) in this area. Then touched the high areas above & below to get a coat on.
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I put a skim coat on the fixed sheave stopping at the lower groove line. Then installed the movable sheave, no pins in the pic yet.
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Installed pins w/ a light coat of Tinkseal. Holes are already packed from inside, but wanted to get a coat on them.
Grabbed 5g (1.2 teaspoons) to install in the pin grooves. It's just enough to fill the groove areas but not hard pack. You can see the grease is concave also, so it's just enough to barely fill all 4 grooves.
I smoothed out the high spots of Tinkseal and kept the lube between the new O-rings.
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Applied a skim coat on the spring cup. When I say skim coat, I mean you can read a newspaper through it. It may look like more in different pics, but it's mostly due to lighting or camera angle.
I like to use my bare hands so the skim coat is about the same level as the grooves in my finger prints.
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[SKELLEY521]

There is also a skim coat on the face of the spring cup. You might see it in the last picture above or not due to lighting.
I Installed the spring cup then slid it up to see if any excessive grease squeezed out.
None did and it looks good. This also tells me that I think the quantities of grease required are pretty spot on.
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I hated not being able to install new seals. I highly recommend you purchase them for your next service along with O-rings.
I worked the sheaves back & forth several times. I developed a grease line, but don't worry just yet.
I cleaned the grease with brake cleaner on a rag. I repeated this step a few times until I finally achieved a clean shaft.
Again, I think using the proper amount limited the number of cleaning cycles and New Seals would've probably prevented this step all together.
Never the less, it's a good check to do.
Pics
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Success !
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[Paul65]

Should have thought of this earlier. No reason to wait to compare to old, just share what new is.

Despite the picture it’s more like 0.026. And remember I’m an electrical controls guy not a pro with calipers.

 

[TINKEN]

Should have thought of this earlier. No reason to wait to compare to old, just share what new is.

Despite the picture it’s more like 0.026. And remember I’m an electrical controls guy not a pro with calipers.

I have a brand new Old version sitting on my desk and I measure wall thickness at 0.039" or about 1mm.

 

[InfidelMT]

Nice work Skelley! One of the best write ups I've seen on a secondary.

 

[SKELLEY521]

Thanks InfidelMT. I almost started greasing/assembly without taking pics but caught myself and had to back up and clean some again.
I wanted to document it to help others and something I can refer to later myself.
It was a learning curve for me and now that I've completed it, the next time will be much easier and faster.

New sockets arrive tomorrow afternoon, so hopefully I'll get to start the Primary.
No word from Babbitt's on the carrier bearing & seal yet, but hopefully it will be in stock and delivered.

 

[SKELLEY521]

Paul65 & TINKEN, something comes to mind with the spring cup and I'm wondering if you guys notice it on the new cups.
While cleaning the cup, I noticed the straight end was slightly bell shaped. It looked so uniform that I thought it was designed that way.
You can see the lip in this pic, where the old dark grease line is.
So now I'm wondering if the design has changed or if it developed during operation.

I've already assembled the sheave, so maybe this is something others can check going forward.
I also did not get a length measurement either, hint hint....lol

 

[TINKEN]

Paul65 & TINKEN, something comes to mind with the spring cup and I'm wondering if you guys notice it on the new cups.
While cleaning the cup, I noticed the straight end was slightly bell shaped. It looked so uniform that I thought it was designed that way.
You can see the lip in this pic, where the old dark grease line is.
So now I'm wondering if the design has changed or if it developed during operation.

Mine has this bell form also and I can confirm that my spring cup is not the new one, I have had it since Romeo purchased his X4. I am just wondering what they actually changed on the cup. 2.043"

 

[SKELLEY521]

My sockets arrived this afternoon, so here are some as found pics.
My evening will probably be spent cleaning.
Check out what looks like metal flakes in the grease. Pics where taken in the shade, some with flash and some w/o, but flakes show up in both.

I tried the screwdriver to pop the grease cover off, not a fan of that method. I used snap ring pliers and pushed off the large lip. This worked much better and no scaring.
Pics...
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Sheave soaking in a foaming degreaser, pic is inside the shaft. Looks like we have the common center grease groove.
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Inside pic of shaft collar. Looks like they use some tooling that inserts and applies grease in four equal points. Grease marks looks like male puzzle ends.
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Enough Sheave porn for now, so you guys/gals get back to work....LOL

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[SKELLEY521]

Just got a email notification from Babbitt's, they just shipped my secondary oil seals....I don't even want to talk about it....lol

Two days now and no update from Babbitt's on my carrier bearing & seal, so I put some time into the old bearing today.
Last couple of rides I could hear a ringing tin noise coming from the CVT area.
I cleaned and flushed the old bearing in place. I don't like to roll dry bearings, but I wanted to know how it felt.
I slowly rolled the inner race and guess what? It made a loud ringing tin noise. The carriage cage acted like a tuning fork and amplified the sound.
I know the bearing life was shortened, but after I packed the bearing with Tinkseal, it runs smooth and quiet. I'm planning on trying it on my test run and I'll decide then.
Old pic & new pic...
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I packed the bearing through the center and pushed Tinkseal up through the bearing. This also pushed out any small particles of old oil/grease that was left from cleaning/flushing.
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Primary is clean, but to dark to get good pics. It had way more than 90g of grease in it, felt like 150g.
Weights & slides are clean, visually inspected & weighed. Nothing Mic'd yet.
2 weights have slight flat spotting. A little harder to see in the pic, but stand out more in person. Sort of hour glass shape, so you might notice it.
They all weighed the same +/- .1 g
Pics...
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Flat Spots <

 

[TINKEN]

I don't know why they put so much grease in there.
It looks like you have some scarring marks on your inner bearings of the sliding sheave. Like the Polyurea grease dried up and you had metal to metal contact.

 

[Tripplec]

I am a lot lost on all this as the gobs of quantity used (grease). They are for the roller weights, being round, hence intended to roll, not slide which if they did will create flat spots in time. The grease in the contact channel is all thats providing lube and not what is squished out as well if tacky as it appears it is to be it may likely at some resistance to rolling the weights. A curved flat weight may work better if sliding in the true intent in the heavily greased channels. All this spinning around would move with the force a lot of grease to the outer perimeter.

Yamaha maybe the only fully tension belt CVT using grease. It never come up before in ATV discussion. I can't help to wonder why!

 

[SKELLEY521]

Yes I saw that and it's unacceptable.
Here is the grease that I pulled out of there. It's dried up for sure and burnt.
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I don't know why they put so much grease in there.
It looks like you have some scarring marks on your inner bearings of the sliding sheave. Like the Polyurea grease dried up and you had metal to metal contact.

The grease inside the primary sleeve was good, but it's to thick to serve any purpose.
The shaft in that area is lower than the journals and it's to thick to weep out. It looks exactly like the day it was applied and didn't aid the primary movable at all.
The sleeve turns with the sheaves as it's wedge between the cam plate and fixed primary sheave via the torque on the nut. Even with the centrifugal forces, that grease doesn't look like it moved. To thick IMHO.

 

[SKELLEY521]

My primary was over greased for sure.
I removed all the grease I could by hand as I wanted to feel for any foreign debris.
I didn't notice all the metal flakes until I took pics, then saw them when I looked closer. I found a hard clump in the grease and on further inspection, it was a collection of metal flakes that I could barely break apart.
Pic of metal flakes in grease that may be easier to see.
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I am a lot lost on all this as the gobs of quantity used (grease). They are for the roller weights, being round, hence intended to roll, not slide which if they did will create flat spots in time. The grease in the contact channel is all thats providing lube and not what is squished out as well if tacky as it appears it is to be it may likely at some resistance to rolling the weights. A curved flat weight may work better if sliding in the true intent in the heavily greased channels. All this spinning around would move with the force a lot of grease to the outer perimeter.

Yamaha maybe the only fully tension belt CVT using grease. I never come up before in ATV discussion. I can't help to wonder why!