[Hahny]

I'll follow up with my monologue later as I've rewritten it 3 times and FB or God doesn't want me to do it right now and it was deleted so I'll just show you the quick-edit version of my ride in the Yamaha RMAX 1000 on the Rubicon Trail. Stay tuned for the following video as this one doesn't cover half of the awesome sections of the Rubicon.

Awesome video man!!

 

[dburt]

Did some of the more intense obstacles have by pass routes available?

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Did some of the more intense obstacles have by pass routes available?

I don't think so. We did Big Sleuth and I hear Old Sleuth is tougher, but I don't know of any more.

 

[therebel19]

Finally got a chance to watch the videos. Very cool. Spotters make a difference. Without one I would have chosen a different line in some of those situations but you have to trust your spotter as they know and see things you don't from behind the wheel.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Finally got a chance to watch the videos. Very cool. Spotters make a difference. Without one I would have chosen a different line in some of those situations but you have to trust your spotter as they know and see things you don't from behind the wheel.

If you've never used a spotter before as I have, it's an uneasy feeling at first. You're not looking at the ground/terrain as you normally would but looking straight at him and depending on him to be your eyes.

 

[therebel19]

Me and my brother spot one another but its different when its a stranger you have no personal relationship with. I trust my brother but someone else would be difficult.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Pictures from the trip:

 

[DirtRoadWarrior]

Note to self: Don't buy "1/8th" thick aluminum" bash plate and plastic fuel hub caps.

 

[660griz]

Great pics and great video. I too would love to drive someone else's Rmax up that trail. I don't think I could voluntarily take mine. Maybe in a few years.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Great pics and great video. I too would love to drive someone else's Rmax up that trail. I don't think I could voluntarily take mine. Maybe in a few years.

I didn't drive mine like it was a rental. I mean I knew it was going to get beat up underneath, but that's why it had all the protection added on like the UHMW skids, bash plate, and rock sliders. It's set up very much like my personal RMAX4. The first day I barely used diff lock and had to be told to. After I got over my false fear of breaking an axle, the second day I used diff lock most of the ride. My follow up videos will cover this.

You'll notice that I only stomp the throttle where momentum is needed to get over an obstacle and never do I WOT stomp it. You'll see I bump the throttle to get over the first 'step', then bump it again to get over the next one. Rarely do I power it up all the way. No one wants to face the shame of gimping a machine, forcing a extended delay for everyone or possible tow out. Now that I've seen how easy it is to change a tie rod, I have no fear of that happening and have one ordered as a spare (should have ordered 2).

If you follow me or my groups on FB you'll see that my RMAX is always washed and waxed and if you happen to catch me with it muddy..........take a picture. I'm warming up to the fact that if I'm going to do CAMP 5 that I may get my rock sliders beat up and that I'll have some bead lock rings get beat up and will wear them as badges of honor if that does happen, but I'm still going to try to avoid it. I think maybe 1 or 2 units in the group had minor body work scrapes and no fenders were ripped off. I would remove center wheel caps if you know you're going rock crawling if they're not low-profile.

Throttle is your enemy in a situation where you're in a bind. It's how things get broke/bent. You need to pick a different line, use a spotter, or simply back off and try again, or admit failure and pull out the winch line if necessary. We didn't have to winch one vehicle. Get rid of the Just Send It!!! attitudes and you'll just likely get through unscathed.

 

[Doc T]

A friend of mine was on that ride. He said it took all day to go 14 mi. I see why.

 

[therebel19]

I like the campsite sign

 

[DirtRoadWarrior]

Lets talk tie rods. Other than terrain, what was the most significate contributor to them failing? Diff lock? driver input? poor design? I know Yamaha reads these threads, but inquiring minds need to know...the truth. We all know that after market tie rods are usually beefier than stock. Going with 32" tires will only amplify this failure. Thanks for your input.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Lets talk tie rods. Other than terrain, what was the most significate contributor to them failing? Diff lock? driver input? poor design? I know Yamaha reads these threads, but inquiring minds need to know...the truth. We all know that after market tie rods are usually beefier than stock. Going with 32" tires will only amplify this failure. Thanks for your input.

Physics. Going at speed and hitting an object where the suspension can't absorb it so the tie rod now takes whatever shock or load your suspension couldn't. Getting into a situation where your steering input is telling you: 'I am making the steering really hard to move for a damn reason you dummy!!' and you ignore it and try and force the wheel against the feedback you're feeling. Sometimes it could be coming off a steep obstacle and you're not slow enough descending and you have a wheel turned and once again, your shocks are no good because your suspension arms are near perpendicular to ground. Gravity is fighting you keeping the wheels straight.

Aftermarket tie rods are great. The RMAX's steering rack has been beefed up as well. You can fall into one of two camps:

• The steering rack is beefy enough to handle the added stress put on it from going with heavier tie rods, or
• You increase the risk of breaking a steering rack, which is much more expensive and harder to change out than a tie rod, which is cheaper and can be changed out in 15 minutes

Same logic above applies to CV axles. It's no fun changing out a diff.

 

[Dan]

Lets talk tie rods. Other than terrain, what was the most significate contributor to them failing? Diff lock? driver input? poor design? I know Yamaha reads these threads, but inquiring minds need to know...the truth. We all know that after market tie rods are usually beefier than stock. Going with 32" tires will only amplify this failure. Thanks for your input.

I agree with Massive that I'd be more comfortable running the tie-rod as a break point/sacrificial lamb rather than beefing up the tie rod and having something else break.

Personally I would try it out with the stock tie rods then go off of personal experience. If you end bending them every ride, then sure, consider upgrading them.
If you end up taking a pretty big hit and putting a lot of stress on the machine, then you look around and find the only damage is the tie-rod, maybe you won't have an issue with them.

After I got over my false fear of breaking an axle, the second day I used diff lock most of the ride. My follow up videos will cover this.

It's good to be cautious with the diff-lock on, but I agree overall the machine will handle it just fine.
Imo when you see broken axle and diff-lock stories, 90% of the time you can read between the lines and see there was high speed wheel spinning, then the wheel slamming to a stop. Such as spinning through a mud whole then hitting the exit embankment hard... Similar to what has always been an industry wide sxs way of breaking stuff, hitting a jump, having high throttle and wheel spin, then landing and slamming all the tires.

 

[therebel19]

• You increase the risk of breaking a steering rack, which is much more expensive and harder to change out than a tie rod, which is cheaper and can be changed out in 15 minutes

Same logic above applies to CV axles. It's no fun changing out a diff.

This is the camp I'm in. I've broke a few tierods and carry tierod ends with me. I've only bent the arm once and it was because I was going to fast and turned into a boulder. I manged to puncture the tire when I did this as well. Tie rods aren't that expensive and fairly easy to fix on the trail.

 

[Budro2]

Lets talk tie rods. Other than terrain, what was the most significate contributor to them failing? Diff lock? driver input? poor design? I know Yamaha reads these threads, but inquiring minds need to know...the truth. We all know that after market tie rods are usually beefier than stock. Going with 32" tires will only amplify this failure. Thanks for your input.

I’m going to say driver input!
I fully agree with M.O., Dan and Therebel.
Im not sure I agree with bigger tires being a factor but I’m willing to be schooled. I believe bigger tires put less stress on steering and suspension components simply because they roll up over obstacles easier, rather than hanging up on them and putting stress on steering and suspension.
With out a doubt a huge contributor to stress on tie rods etc would be anything that increases stock wheel offset!!! Now we have to be even more heads up in our driving. I’m not knocking wider offset because it has its valuable benefits but as with any change, it’s a compromise.
That said, in the 5 years, 8000 miles I driven my two side by sides, most all those miles have been driven on both cars with 2 size bigger tires, and a wider stance than stock. At least half of those miles have been a lot of boulder strewn very rough trails and or extreme rock crawling. Diff lock used on a regular basis!!! I have NEVER bent a tie rod or snapped an axle.
That doesn’t mean I won’t! I do move slow with caution and if I’m in a tire spinning scenario I’m then really mindful of the matter.
I run stock offset on my Rmax unless I’m going rock crawling. I don’t expect to put tons of extra wear and tear on suspension and steering components because it’s a occasional circumstance and it’s very slow and controlled so it’s a worth while compromise. With 2.5” spacers and a horrible scrub radius one has to be careful at all times. If you hit that rock or ledge with one front wheel unexpectedly, you definitely feel it in the steering wheel and you know the steering system just grunted a bit!
I think most tie rods get bent when people are going to fast in rough terrain and especially when turned a good amount and giving throttle. If I’m making a hard turn and my front tire is going to contact a ledge or big rock I try to straighten out some just before contact. Then I also am very conscious of the skinny pedal and the forces applied at the same time. If that tire doesn’t start to roll up over you better be backing off on the skinny pedal. All the more reason for the bigger tire IMO.

I recently watched a video from FISHER OFF-ROAD. They were having a discussion with someone who owned an Rmax and they were asking questions about it since they hadn’t yet seen or driven one. One question they asked was, did they beef up the tie rods and they laughed and said those things were like spaghetti noodles in the past. I kinda laughed myself because I don’t read of to many bent tie rods and I never read of steering racks destroyed or power steering issues. A tie rod is such an easy trail fix and so inexpensive, why would you not design it to be the weak link? And yet In I’ve never had one fail.
Im not knocking those who prefer to haul but in rough terrain. I applaud you. But if you bend tie rods regularly, don’t curse the machine. If you snap axles because you love foot to the floor mudding or sever rough terrain hill climbing with wheels spinning. Git er done and have a blast and smile when you change axles etc. It was all in the name of fun. Use it like you want but don’t say it’s a piece of crap and curse the manufacturer’s!

 

[DirtRoadWarrior]

I’m going to say driver input!
I fully agree with M.O., Dan and Therebel.
Im not sure I agree with bigger tires being a factor but I’m willing to be schooled. I believe bigger tires put less stress on steering and suspension components simply because they roll up over obstacles easier, rather than hanging up on them and putting stress on steering and suspension.
With out a doubt a huge contributor to stress on tie rods etc would be anything that increases stock wheel offset!!! Now we have to be even more heads up in our driving. I’m not knocking wider offset because it has its valuable benefits but as with any change, it’s a compromise.
That said, in the 5 years, 8000 miles I driven my two side by sides, most all those miles have been driven on both cars with 2 size bigger tires, and a wider stance than stock. At least half of those miles have been a lot of boulder strewn very rough trails and or extreme rock crawling. Diff lock used on a regular basis!!! I have NEVER bent a tie rod or snapped an axle.
That doesn’t mean I won’t! I do move slow with caution and if I’m in a tire spinning scenario I’m then really mindful of the matter.
I run stock offset on my Rmax unless I’m going rock crawling. I don’t expect to put tons of extra wear and tear on suspension and steering components because it’s a occasional circumstance and it’s very slow and controlled so it’s a worth while compromise. With 2.5” spacers and a horrible scrub radius one has to be careful at all times. If you hit that rock or ledge with one front wheel unexpectedly, you definitely feel it in the steering wheel and you know the steering system just grunted a bit!
I think most tie rods get bent when people are going to fast in rough terrain and especially when turned a good amount and giving throttle. If I’m making a hard turn and my front tire is going to contact a ledge or big rock I try to straighten out some just before contact. Then I also am very conscious of the skinny pedal and the forces applied at the same time. If that tire doesn’t start to roll up over you better be backing off on the skinny pedal. All the more reason for the bigger tire IMO.

I recently watched a video from FISHER OFF-ROAD. They were having a discussion with someone who owned an Rmax and they were asking questions about it since they hadn’t yet seen or driven one. One question they asked was, did they beef up the tie rods and they laughed and said those things were like spaghetti noodles in the past. I kinda laughed myself because I don’t read of to many bent tie rods and I never read of steering racks destroyed or power steering issues. A tie rod is such an easy trail fix and so inexpensive, why would you not design it to be the weak link? And yet In I’ve never had one fail.
Im not knocking those who prefer to haul but in rough terrain. I applaud you. But if you bend tie rods regularly, don’t curse the machine. If you snap axles because you love foot to the floor mudding or sever rough terrain hill climbing with wheels spinning. Git er done and have a blast and smile when you change axles etc. It was all in the name of fun. Use it like you want but don’t say it’s a piece of crap and curse the manufacturer’s!

Noted. Thanks.

 

[Boorabee Parker]

Some great feedback MO. Which did you prefer the 2 or 4? I have a four on order.

I did some rock crawling on the weekend with my X2. I relied on my spotter 100 per cent. Bellied out once and used the front diff lock to reverse back and try another line. I also used my left foot a bit on the brake for a smoother run over some rocks. I was the only sxs the rest being full body 4x4's.

 

[MassiveOverkill]

Some great feedback MO. Which did you prefer the 2 or 4? I have a four on order.

I didn't drive the 2 as I drove a demo model when they first came out. I prefer the 4 even though the 2 has more rear end suspension travel.