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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Thanks therebel19, appreciate it.
It's a learning curve for me as it's the first time I've been into the sheaves on this CVT.
Now that I've done it and learned a few things along the way, it will be much faster next time plus I will know where to focus some attention on potential problem areas.
 
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Discussion Starter · #63 · (Edited)
I only found 2 weights with noticeable flat spots, however when I rolled each one in my dial calipers to check for size/roundness, I discovered a third that had a flat spot.
I had to mark it with a sharpie so I could tell where to look. You really can't see it, but once I knew where to focus I could feel it. Maybe a defect? I don't know, but it's there.
Size Chart and tolerances......
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My weights all weighed 22.0/22.1g. They all mic'd .178-.179" except for the 3 w/ flat spots. .174-175" just at the flat spot area.
Just for size reference. A pocket notepad piece of paper averages .003" thick. I decided to use them all for now, but will replace them all next time I'm in there.

Time for some clean porn....lol.
Pics...
Primary movable looked good visibly , nothing cracked, bent or broken. A couple of the ramp up's were shinier. I'm looking for probable cause of the flat spotting, so let's go to the cam plate.
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Looking at the wear pattern, 12 & 1 o'clock, wear goes out to the very end and @ 1 it appears to go past.
Now, did the weight wear come from the sheave (some wear ramps had no lube), since a few ramps had more wear than others and which may have flat spotted the weight which allowed the weight to travel further or did the weight just travel up that far and the edge cut the weight?
I don't know for certain which to blame, but I used a fine file and knocked the sharp edge off at all flats and finished with crocus cloth for a smooth finish/edge.
Next time I disassemble (and from now on) I will lay everything out according to it's respective location so it will help me trouble shoot any potential problems.


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Pic of as found ramps once I pulled the weights out.

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Primary sheave wear looks excellent on both halves.
Since inspection is done, it's easy to conclude that the Secondary Fixed Sheave had the most wear, both on the face and those damn slide grooves.
I'm glad I got mic readings on the grooves for reference. If the Secondary fixed sheave continues to wear at the rate it is now, I can see replacing it long before any other sheave components and if anyone develops any CVT issues, I would highly recommend paying close attention to it.


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Excellent info!
 
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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
I put the primary sheave together (minus the grease cover) while clean to get the depth check (machined sheave need not apply...lol)

Here is the primary sheave depth check.
Says that it should be .850"+. Reassemble if it's less?? Confusing.
Anyway mine was .971-.972"

Just a note, while you're handling the primary movable sheave from here on out, always keep the cam plate pushed in.
The weights can fall out of their slots while moving/flipping it around and you will have to remove the grease cover to put them back in their place.


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Let's get to Tinksealing... :p
I have pics sorted in different folders so if I forget to add one now, I'll add it later.
Recommended amounts...


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I added the 2.5g (1/2 teaspoon) to the inner groove of the spacer/sleeve focusing around the weep holes, thin coat on both inner end races.
Since inspection showed scaring on the the inner shaft of the movable sheave, I added 5g instead of 2.5g in the center cavity and smoothed it out with my special Tinkseal tool.
Also a skim coat on the outer end races.
Place the sleeve and push the primary down over it. Todd from Hunterworks explains this well. I repeated this step (3 or 4 times) until no Tinkseal was pushed out.
Pics & Video below...
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Some Tinkseal lube prepping. All component areas that had grease in/on them will get a prep skim coat of Tinkseal.
I like using a prep coat so that I know there is lube on all surfaces, cracks and corners for start up. No dry starts, plus it makes assembly of components much easier such as the slides, etc.
pics...
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Discussion Starter · #66 · (Edited)
Most people seem to have their own method for greasing primary sheaves and I've never seen anyone do it "by the recommended amount", so let's try it.

Yamaha's recommend amount.


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90g = 3.2oz
90/8 = 11.25g per weight
11.25g = 0.760 tbsp
So basically 3/4 of a 1 tbsp per roller section if my math is correct.
I used 1 tbsp and did 1 weight/ramp section. Then I did the rest of the weights/ramp sections to match.
I removed way more old grease than this, so is the recommended amount actually enough? We shall see.

I was looking for my pics, but apparently I didn't take any of the 2 stages that I did. I have some final pics though, so you'll just have to imagine. Guess I was caught up in the moment....lol.
I put a 1/4" bed of Tinskeal in the entire ramp section. Then I put a layer all around the weight about a 1/4" high. I placed the weight and filled the rest of the ramp with the remaining tbsp of Tinkseal.
Then I just did the other 7 sections to match.

I'm 98% done in this pic. I stopped to get a beer and I have 4 teaspoons left to apply in 4 ramp sections.
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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
How do you guys like my special Tinkseal applicator that I scored off the ol'lady. She had a bunch of them in the drawer and I asked if she would donate one to my Tinkseal lube box....lol.
Nothing beats applying/spreading Tinkseal like a Butter knife.... :p
A popsicle stick would've been handy for leveling out the Tinkseal inside the sheave shaft grooves also as they are lower than the end bearing faces.
 
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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Ok let's wrap this up.
Install cam plate pic.
Clean and lube O-ring & groove. I used scotch brite to clean the grease cover lip where the O-ring seats, apply lube afterwards. It had spots of rust that could cut it or prevent a good seal.
My O-ring was flat and needs to be replaced, next time.
The cover is a really tight fit so use 4 screws to walk the cover down evenly. Finish adding screws and tighten.


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Let's prep the drive & driven shafts.
I wire brushed all the splines and scotch brite the 4 shaft journals.
The journals are a slip fit, but only have .002" clearance, so get everything clean.
I used a small brush and applied a skim coat of Tinkseal to the splines and journals.
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Prep sheaves for install. Remove cling wrap, jack the secondary apart. I used brake cleaner on a rag and wiped the sheave faces off really good.
Install the fixed primary sheave on the splines and the secondary sheave assembly, torque nut.
Install belt in the proper direction. Arrows are on the belt and are also cast into the inside cover. (of course you noticed the belt travel direction before removal right? lol)
Install the spacer/sleeve. Keep the cam plate pushed in and install the movable primary sheave on the splines. The cam plate should seat against the spacer sleeve. Dont' push the movable sheave.
Move the belt around if you have issues getting movable sheave to seat on the splines.
Install the washer making sure it's centered and seated over the splines. Hold washer while you install and tighten the nut. Torque nut to complete install.

Remove the secondary jack bolts and roll the assembly several times to seat the belt. Now is a good time to check that everything is moving as it should and that you don't have any issues.
I did a start up and test cycled the CVT a couple times prior to installing the carriage support to make sure all was good.
Check that the 2 sleeves for the carriage support are installed and seated. (about 10 o'clock & 4).
Install the carriage support making sure that it's properly seated on the shaft and on the guide sleeves. Tighten bolts.
I did another test cycle here to make sure that everything was installed and operating properly before installing the outer cover..
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This is just how I did the install. Feel free to do it however works best for you.
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Here are a few pics I took prior to installing the carriage support.
Gotta love pics.....lol.
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Well my CVT starting slipping again FFS, So Back to grease I go. Will be using Amsoil in both primary and secondary.

 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Have you been into the secondary sheave?
That area seems to be the most prone to CVT issues/wear IMHO.

I just completed a good test run and will post later.
 

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TinkSeal is not grease and that is why I believe it will work very well for this application. TinkSeal is made from both liquid and dry lubricants combined at an elevated temperature under pressure. It's a carrier system to get lubrication to the area where it is needed.

TinkSeal is now used by many off road racing companies for things like engine assembly and the manufacturing/repair of shocks. Three different shock companies, including a Harley Davidson shock manufacturer. I use it on my cnc machine collets to keep them from sticking. Spark plug threads and exhaust bolts I don't want to seize, get a nice coating. I had an old door that squeaked. No matter what I lubricated it with, it would always squeak again after awhile. I put TinkSeal on the pins, one at a time. Door actually swings nicer now, no noise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Since I used Tinkseal to lube/push some old oil/grease particles out of my carrier bearing, I put it in a separate jar as to not cross containment my main Tinkseal jar.
I was thinking of items that I could use it for later.
I just installed all new bi-folding closet doors in the house last week. Being a Millwright, I made sure everything was installed plumb, square and level.
I used that jar of Tinkseal to lube those door tracks just the other day. It's funny that you mentioned that....lol.
I thought they operated good before, but now they travel with pinky pressure. :p
 
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Discussion Starter · #73 · (Edited)
Test run complete. Now I need to install plastics.
I will post my results later....
 

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Thikseal left a weird deposit. Glad I switched to Amsoil for this test run. Wasn't expecting that type of residue.

All my weight were within .06 mm Biggest 30.09 mm Smallest 30.03 mm Weight was also within .02g .

Same as usual, Bunch of crap caused by the piss poor CVT intake design. And this time I didnt swamp it, I just hit a few mud puddles.

Pressure washed the inside of the case....lol... Torque everything down to a few Uga Duggas on #3 of the 1/2 Milwaukee impact. Shits not coming off....

This is the 5th time I do this, and hopefully the last, Just waiting on my Pre-Filter that I can put on the CVT intake.














 

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Discussion Starter · #75 · (Edited)
Sorry to hear that. Did you run Tinkseal lube in primary CVT w/ HV weights?
I'll take Residue over my scaring any day of the week.....lol
 

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Your weights look really good, stock or Chinese weights would not have held up under that. I am unsure what the red residue is from, there is nothing "red" in TinkSeal, everything is white. It is most likely to be ironoxide, which which would come from the oxidation of the steel if any moisture was allowed to accumulate in the bearing area. Have you ever dunked your clutch underwater?



Thikseal left a weird deposit. Glad I switched to Amsoil for this test run. Wasn't expecting that type of residue.

All my weight were within .06 mm Biggest 30.09 mm Smallest 30.03 mm Weight was also within .02g .

Same as usual, Bunch of crap caused by the piss poor CVT intake design. And this time I didnt swamp it, I just hit a few mud puddles.

Pressure washed the inside of the case....lol... Torque everything down to a few Uga Duggas on #3 of the 1/2 Milwaukee impact. Shits not coming off....

This is the 5th time I do this, and hopefully the last, Just waiting on my Pre-Filter that I can put on the CVT intake.




 

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Have you ever dunked your clutch underwater?
LMFAO Yeah Dilligaf’s a uboat commander. Snorkeled and in the water all the time. I use my jet ski for water activities. But hey to each his own. Lol
 

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I’ve been using Tinkseal a long time. I also have had dust issues in the past. I’ve never once seen red residue.
Is that the exhaust duct next to the secondary? And is that an air temperature sensor sticking out of it?
 
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Discussion Starter · #79 ·


Tinkseal Test run...

I have a road course that I take after I do any modifications, repairs or testing.
It's a 30 mile blacktop road with a lot of steep hills, sharp switchbacks and long straightaways.

It has a rock face on one side of the road and forest on the other.
I like this blacktop road course especially for testing and inspection runs as any noises/sounds are amplified between the rock face and forest.

The first section of this course was casual speed. I was focusing on the CVT sounds/operation and less on actual driving.
When I hit the switchback section I was ready to rip. Between punching the throttle and taping the break, I was mainly focused on CVT operation/response.
Straightaways were wide open throttle and listening for any sound fluctuations/vibrations.
Now I reached the half way mark, so I turned around and repeated all the above steps on the way back.

Test summary:
I couldn't believe how smooth and quiet the CVT operated.
I couldn't hear or feel any noises or vibrations at all and I didn't even have all the plastics on either.

Upshift performances were better with smooth and linear response to the throttle inputs.
Backshifts were phenominal. I don't know any other way to put it.
It left me wondering if I was slowly developing a issue and it just became the new normal or not.
I had to think back to when the car was new and wonder if it ever backshifted this good.
Either way, the improvements had me pretty stoked to say the least.

Lastly, I noticed a slightly better power delivery. I'm thinking that the sheaves work so smoothly and together that belt pinch was improved which transfers to more power to the ground.

I strongly recommend that everyone should do their sheave service when required or sooner.
As a 30 yr Industrial Mechanic, I can tell you that from this moment and continuing into the future, I will be doing my Sheave Service with Tinkseal.

Tinkseal listing and description
https://www.hunterworks.com/inc/sdetail/123661/104960
 

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View attachment 86056

Tinkseal Test run...

I have a road course that I take after I do any modifications, repairs or testing.
It's a 30 mile blacktop road with a lot of steep hills, sharp switchbacks and long straightaways.

It has a rock face on one side of the road and forest on the other.
I like this blacktop road course especially for testing and inspection runs as any noises/sounds are amplified between the rock face and forest.

The first section of this course was casual speed. I was focusing on the CVT sounds/operation and less on actual driving.
When I hit the switchback section I was ready to rip. Between punching the throttle and taping the break, I was mainly focused on CVT operation/response.
Straightaways were wide open throttle and listening for any sound fluctuations/vibrations.
Now I reached the half way mark, so I turned around and repeated all the above steps on the way back.

Test summary:
I couldn't believe how smooth and quiet the CVT operated.
I couldn't hear or feel any noises or vibrations at all and I didn't even have all the plastics on either.

Upshift performances were better with smooth and linear response to the throttle inputs.
Backshifts were phenominal. I don't know any other way to put it.
It left me wondering if I was slowly developing a issue and it just became the new normal or not.
I had to think back to when the car was new and wonder if it ever backshifted this good.
Either way, the improvements had me pretty stoked to say the least.

Lastly, I noticed a slightly better power delivery. I'm thinking that the sheaves work so smoothly and together that belt pinch was improved which transfers to more power to the ground.

I strongly recommend that everyone should do their sheave service when required or sooner.
As a 30 yr Industrial Mechanic, I can tell you that from this moment and continuing into the future, I will be doing my Sheave Service with Tinkseal.

Tinkseal listing and description
https://www.hunterworks.com/inc/sdetail/123661/104960
After I replaced my worn out secondary sheave I thought my wet clutch was going out because my CVT was shifting so phenomenally and hadn't experienced it shift that smoothly since I could remember. It's slowly losing that feeling as I approach 11K miles, which is 2K miles since my last servicing. Yamaha is still out of secondary spring cups so I'm waiting for them to be back in stock to service my secondary again.

When I do service it again, I'm putting back in my original secondary spring, which had reduced spring height from sagging and naturally less tension. The belt bark was almost nonexistent with that spring and I could go much longer without having to blow my primary out.

Tinkseal will help greatly but the wear components in the X2/X4 CVT need upgrading as they'll still fail over time depending on conditions in my opinion, namely spring cup and rollers. I think the secondary spring cup could benefit from slippery washers even more than the Gen 1's did. Think about it, we're dealing with much more secondary spring pressure than before. I put Tinkseal between the secondary spring cup base and sheave and then wipe excess out really good. It's better than nothing.

I'm restating things I've said 2-3 years ago, but I was the only one with 3K miles back then and no one else was getting into their sheaves under the 10 year belt warranty warm fuzzy sense of security and the things I was proposing wouldn't sell, and I get it. If Yamaha discontinues the X2/X4 then I guess it doesn't make sense to put all the money into making aftermarket products to support it, but with high demand of this model, I don't think it's going away anytime soon.
 
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