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Making these for sale never crossed my mind. I'm a few weeks out from full retirement and the last thing I need (or want) is a job... I just enjoy making stuff for my toys. The legal aspects alone of doing such a thing is enough to keep me from entering into such a venture. If it works, I'd be willing to share the files with the community if a member wanted to make their own. Many of us have family members that are machinists, know someone in the trades or have a mill in their well equipped garage. Bringing something like this to market, nah I think I'll pass.

The Perfex lift front brackets should bolt right up just like the Gorilla Gen I. The rear mounts on the X2 are quite different so I think those parts from the Perfex kit would be useless. I'll take a more detailed look look but it appears to be a bit more complicated than a channel bracket when it comes to the rear. It's likely why Perfex hasn't released the X2 flavor themselves.

Keeping cost down is always the challenge when it comes to an item like this. Currently we are blessed with a booming economy and access is at a premium when it comes to machine time. My better shops have an 8-10 week backlog and there's no sign of that letting up at least in the immediate future. If I had to guess on cost, I would put each bracket in the 50-60 dollar range (quantity 25 sets of 4 pieces). That includes Helicoils, anodize and fasteners. Of course cost goes down as quantities go up but there's a point of diminishing return. It's not a difficult part to make, but does require multiple setups and raw material is spendy... tang-less thread inserts alone are almost a dollar each (16 required). On the plus side, there's not a bag full of spacers, washers, nuts and bolts needed for installation. I am considering pressed-in steel bushings in the mounting holes of the aluminum extender and adding Zerk fittings to each for service because that's how it should be.

I appreciate the input from all,
Mike
That makes sense! I hadn’t seen the rear shock mount for the X2. I assumed it would look very similar.

Good luck, If everyone’s lucky some company will steal the idea and run with it!
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Again, these models were created from looking at photos and are not to scale but the upper rear shock mount looks something like what's shown in the graphic. I think it's actually a single channel that welds to the top of the frame and has both driver and passenger side mounts... for conceptual purposes, what's shown is close enough. I believe doing something like this would allow flexibility of the the mounting holes to be located in such a way to keep the shock angle consistent with stock (TBD).


Drilling thru the frame tube would be necessary which really doesn't appeal to me but is probably fine. Drilling thru the top of the mount is also a possibility albeit more difficult to locate the hole. The bolt would attach to a tapped hole in the upper extender (not shown). All of the machining is straight forward although the blank will be a much larger piece of stock Also note it is now a single part not needing the clamp plate and fasteners. Having the 3D printer makes prototyping parts like this a lot less risky. The only investment is the material and it's cheap.

I'll model it in sheet metal and post that a little later. I'm just not a big fan of all of those spacers but it's worth a look. Also, I'll run a quick and dirty simulation on it to identify the weak points. Sheet metal would certainly make it more cost friendly, most of these aftermarket guys have CNC laser cutters and press brakes in their arsenal these days. The inexpensive Perfex style plates on the lower front and a sheet metal bend up on the upper rear hitting all of Budro2's requirements... cheap and interchangeable.

I need to get down to the barn and take some real measurements before spending a whole lot more time on this but I think this will be a fun project!! Stay tuned.

Mike
 
Looking at the design, I absolutely love it. Been looking for a 2” lift that didn’t just max out the springs. On that note it’s important to consider down travel if the spring is going to ride where current set in sag of a stock rig is. Might be worth doing some limiter straps to stop the shock 1/4”-1/8” before the axles bind, then you could lift as much as wanted with your set in ride and not have to worry about what is going to happen at full droop.
 
Mike thanks for all the work, your definitely have the background skill set to get this done.
 
The way I see it the springs don't change, all you're doing is raising the entire chassis above the A-Arms which stay the same off the ground. Weight on the springs don't change whether the spacer is on top of the shock bolt or bottom attached to the A-arm (which is my preference). The model above may, & I say may create at twisting leverage of the square channel of the oem mount. That would be a key concern if I was looking for a lift. Why is the bottom sof often ignored as a designed solution since it so much more robust. I looked last year and line up a piece of 1-1/4" square stock I have left from a trailer project and look like it would slide in without a fuse. Have the lift flags going up drilled and welded accurately might be all that would be needed. All my tools are hand held, drills etc and welding skills minimal but appear easy for someone accustomed to some level of fit measuring skills and drill press.
 
The way I see it the springs don't change, all you're doing is raising the entire chassis above the A-Arms which stay the same off the ground. Weight on the springs don't change whether the spacer is on top of the shock bolt or bottom attached to the A-arm (which is my preference). The model above may, & I say may create at twisting leverage of the square channel of the oem mount. That would be a key concern if I was looking for a lift. Why is the bottom sof often ignored as a designed solution since it so much more robust. I looked last year and line up a piece of 1-1/4" square stock I have left from a trailer project and look like it would slide in without a fuse. Have the lift flags going up drilled and welded accurately might be all that would be needed. All my tools are hand held, drills etc and welding skills minimal but appear easy for someone accustomed to some level of fit measuring skills and drill press.
With adding a spacer at the top or bottom of the shock (essentially widening the gap between the A arm and frame), are you creating a risk to your axles? The angles of the CVs, and you would need to watch the down travel, because potentially the axle splines could pop out. Based on some reading and videos I have watched, but I am no expert nor do I have any real world experience in this matter. I am just wanting a 2" lift that is safe and that actually works.
 
Could you not add an additional brace going down to the bottom part of the frame, it should take care of that twisting Tripplec brought up. Excuse my markups, I am not a CADD guy, nor do I have anything on my computer to look as good as Rhino's pics and skills.

You would run on both sides of the bracket.

 
Just as an addition. I have a stock suspension with eibac springs. I just snapped a front axle. I was high centered so front suspension was at max extension and I was in 4 low turning the wheel to get out of my situation. My fault I put my self in a bad scenario but axles can only handle so much. There only regular duty 6 ball cv joints.

Awesome work with the CAD and design!
 

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Discussion starter · #29 ·
To all,

Your observations are valid, are worth consideration and I thank you. I'm of the opinion the currently available option did not give much attention to some of these concerns and rushed the product to market without giving thought to how these machines are abused. Sure, the lift looks good static but it must also perform out on the trail without comprising ride quality and more importantly reliability. Designing a critical component like this is not incidental which is why there aren't more vendors doing it. Especially when you have to reverse engineer everything by not having drawings and specifications.

The first draft of the proposed extensions are complete and look very much like the models in my first post with some minor tweaks. With my recent retirement I lost access to some resources so I'm now dependent on others, most notably the 3D printer. A former co-worker has the files and agreed to get the prototypes printed up as time permits... shutting the country down has slowed my/his efforts. The plastic models will allow me to check some of things you folks identified such as CV angle, shock position, added stresses and clearances. Obviously the ABS material won't withstand a "road" test but will eliminate some of the potential errors before I cut metal. How much lift is too much lift being the big mystery.

Mock-ups and simulations are great for initial concepts but the only way to prove out the design is test, test and more test and that takes a lot of time, I'll keep you all posted as things develop.

Mike
 
Just as an addition. I have a stock suspension with eibac springs. I just snapped a front axle. I was high centered so front suspension was at max extension and I was in 4 low turning the wheel to get out of my situation. My fault I put my self in a bad scenario but axles can only handle so much. There only regular duty 6 ball cv joints.

Awesome work with the CAD and design!
Sorry I cannot tell from pics...did you snap the axle at the CV or did the CV cage break internally?
 
Just as an addition. I have a stock suspension with eibac springs. I just snapped a front axle. I was high centered so front suspension was at max extension and I was in 4 low turning the wheel to get out of my situation. My fault I put my self in a bad scenario but axles can only handle so much. There only regular duty 6 ball cv joints.

Awesome work with the CAD and design!
Sorry I cannot tell from pics...did you snap the axle at the CV or did the CV cage break internally?
CV cage broke.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Wow, that's not good!! Correct me if I'm wrong, the Eibach springs are longer and add a spacer between the top of the spring and the pre-load spanner nut to provide the additional lift.

There only regular duty 6 ball cv joints.
Do they even make a heavy duty axle assembly for the X2?

Mike
 
Wow, that's not good!! Correct me if I'm wrong, the Eibach springs are longer and add a spacer between the top of the spring and the pre-load spanner nut to provide the additional lift.

There only regular duty 6 ball cv joints.
Do they even make a heavy duty axle assembly for the X2?

Mike
The eibach springs took care of the sag issue with the stock springs. The ride height is back to normal. There is a hint that Demon is working on heavy duty 8 ball axles for the X2X4. The fronts we only have an option for oem 6 ball. The rear I believe we have an option for a 6 or 8 ball but don’t quote me on that.
 
Actually the static length of the spring IIRC (if I remember correctly- and less these days) is the spring is a little shorter than OEM, but a heavier rated spring so it does not need to preload to get the height. I think I preloaded mine 3/32" just to make sure they did not want to move around a little. The JBS adapter is primarily to match diameters of the spring with the shock.
 
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CV cage broke.
Thx.. I snapped off several axles in my Rhino at the cage but have never broken a cage. I have never used a lift other than the SuperATV A-arms which I believe has a little lift in them. Lift to me is defining a more extreme angle for the CVs than come from factory.
 
My springs from JBS (gen 1) we’re the same length as OEM in the rear when not under compression. At least within a 1/4”.

The front springs that we’re available to fit the bill from EIBACH to JBS we’re around 3/4” short. The spacer was developed by JBS only to make up the difference in length, not to add additional height. The spacer is about a 1/2” and I still had to use some of my preload threads to get a light tension against the spring before installation.


The extra ride height is due to the springs ability to compress less under the weight of the machine.
I may be wrong but I think the spring/spacer scenario is the same for the x models.
 
You guys are correct the eibach springs are shorter. In the case of the X2 there is no spacer on the fronts just an adapter for the different ID. You can thread on the preload nut with out having to compress the spring unlike the stock spring needs a little compression to get the nut started. The rears have a .5 spacer both for the longer threads on the rear and for the change on the ID of the spring. It’s the same as the front you don’t need to compress the spring to start the nut unlike the stock ones. As they have said it’s a heavier duty spring

My fronts only have 5/8 preload and my rears have 0 preload. 12” of clearance on the front w/ 28” tires and just under 13” on the rear.
 

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Lift to me is defining a more extreme angle for the CVs than come from factory.
This is why if I needed more height, or wanted more height, I'd go with a quality portal set up rather than a lift. When you're flexed, and trying to get over an obstacle, a lift really facilitates breaking an axle. Portals at least maintain factory CV angles. They're just pricey, which is why most people want a cheap option for more clearance.
 
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Discussion starter · #39 ·
This is why if I needed more height, or wanted more height, I'd go with a quality portal set up rather than a lift
Wouldn't the 8-10 inch wider stance combined with big tires put lot of stress on the steering components? Or do you add heavy duty tie rods, ball joints and steering box when running portals? I have zero experience with portals but there is usually no "free lunch" and it looks like they would create an obscene amount of steering feedback. I would like to hear from somebody that actually had them on their X2/X4.

Mike
 
Rhinohio- Do not know about X machines but your perception appears to be correct. If you watch some videos by Blown Budget Offroad group they have an YXZ they put portals on and they have then discovered the domino effect of the rest of the steering stresses created. The sad part seems to be (hold any attacks as this has not been thoroughly researched) that there are not any heavy duty upgrade components available. To just keep rebuilding/replacing OEM components and expecting different results seems like it fits a common popular definition.....
 
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