[chief]

Well it would happen during hunting season. The issue im having with my bike is related to the post I made a few weeks ago about losing my coolant level in the little reservoir that you add it to with the Low and High marks. I have 450 miles on my wolverine and since ive had it ive added 2.5 quarts to the machine roughly. I hated to take it up there as it is in the middle of deer season but I had to since my warranty runs out at 12-05-15. It drinks coolant. I cant find a leak. But when I pull the oil dip stick there is a off white thick almost like hand lotion on the end of the dip stick. I told the service manager at my Yamaha dealer and he said bring it on in cause it may be serious. May not be. But better safe than sorry I guess. And the bike has Never been in deep water. Its just not what I do with it. I use it to deer hunt and am kinda anal about taking care of it, no mudding, wash it regularly, maintenance, etc. etc. I'm fairly easy on the machine I believe. I explained all that to the guy at Yamaha. He said be patient that he is going to file a claim with the warranty or something. He said it may be a couple weeks as they are slow at Yamaha, the people above him I guess. I told the guy id done been in there buying coolant before and asking them about this granted id never spoken with him before but the other guys in there I dealt with kinda minimized the concern that I had with the coolant level disappearing. The service manager that I spoke with today seemed personable, knowledgeable, and ready to help me with this unfortunate and uncommon problem and I am thankful for that after hearing of the other fellow with the engine problem that is having a tough time getting cooperation from his dealer support. He speculated a bit about it maybe being a bad head gasket. He added that this is uncommon (which I believe to be true) for this to happen with a Yamaha. But at the end of the day mechanical stuff can break and parts are not perfect and I understand that and deal with that in the oil field ive seen the toughest and baddest equipment break and tear up burn down blow up not everyday but it happens. So now im just hoping that they fix this and don't play no games cause I got $13.5k tied up in this buggy that aint doing me a bit of good up there at the shop. okay done venting.

 

[chief]

When they let me know what they find I'll be sure and let y'all know on here.

 

[trailcutter]

bummer ,keeps us informed.

 

[chief]

Bout to go up to the dealer where i dropped it off and have a chat with whoever is in charge up there before they get to tearing into my rig. if it is indeed messed up I'm gone need it back like brand new like $13.5k brand new it ain't no reason the oil should be milky and the thing be sucking down coolant. i spent good money for it to work right, and i believe yamaha typically produces quality stuff, but sometimes.... hopefully it is minor but gotta get my ducks in a row in case it ain't.

 

[FordTruckMan]

I'm crossing my fingers for you, I really hope it works out man.

 

[chief]

they called me back today. Let me see if i can explain this clearly if not one that is more familiar with this can chime in and make what I'm about to say more clear. They said there was a vent line pinched under the gas tank that wasn't supposed to be pinched. Said it came from the factory like that. This vent line comes from the water pump, he spoke about the water pump having a seal that separates oil and coolant obviously. Basically he said that since the vent line off the water pump was pinched it was pressuring up inside causing it to push coolant into the motor instead of out the vent line... He spoke about weep holes in the seals.. All this was over the phone which made it hard to understand. But the culprit he said, again, was the pinched vent hose and it was causing me to lose coolant into the motor. Which i did find milky oil on my dipstick.. he said they flushed the engine out.. and noted it on the warranty claim in case it causes me problems down the road. i would rather have a new engine but that aint happening... maybe it won't cause me any problems. maybe it will. may be time to purchase the extended warranty. how much is that $1200? haha Sorry if this is unclear, someone that is more familiar with what is going on maybe one of yall can make it make more sense and articulate exactly how the hose being pinched can cause that because that is where i got lost a little. i need more explantation which i will be asking for when i go up there. id like to see it that'd make it more understandable.

 

[chief]

The told me up there at the dealer that yamaha dont have crate motors to put into their machines... just parts of motors... i was like get all the parts of motors and put it together make me one new motor and stick it in my buggy bruh.... dont look like thats happening.

 

[FordTruckMan]

they called me back today. Let me see if i can explain this clearly if not one that is more familiar with this can chime in and make what I'm about to say more clear. They said there was a vent line pinched under the gas tank that wasn't supposed to be pinched. Said it came from the factory like that. This vent line comes from the water pump, he spoke about the water pump having a seal that separates oil and coolant obviously. Basically he said that since the vent line off the water pump was pinched it was pressuring up inside causing it to push coolant into the motor instead of out the vent line... He spoke about weep holes in the seals.. All this was over the phone which made it hard to understand. But the culprit he said, again, was the pinched vent hose and it was causing me to lose coolant into the motor. Which i did find milky oil on my dipstick.. he said they flushed the engine out.. and noted it on the warranty claim in case it causes me problems down the road. i would rather have a new engine but that aint happening... maybe it won't cause me any problems. maybe it will. may be time to purchase the extended warranty. how much is that $1200? haha Sorry if this is unclear, someone that is more familiar with what is going on maybe one of yall can make it make more sense and articulate exactly how the hose being pinched can cause that because that is where i got lost a little. i need more explantation which i will be asking for when i go up there. id like to see it that'd make it more understandable.

The told me up there at the dealer that yamaha dont have crate motors to put into their machines... just parts of motors... i was like get all the parts of motors and put it together make me one new motor and stick it in my buggy bruh.... dont look like thats happening.

Well, I am happy and sad at the same time here. I am happy that the problem was found, sad that it wasn't resolved properly. Coolant in an engine means rebuild time, I don't care who you are or what you say you will never convince me that ZERO damage was done to an engine with coolant contamination. Period. As to how much damage was done, that can't be known with certainty unless the engine is torn down. You could have minimal damage, and a cleaning and flushing of the engine will prevent future damage, or you may already have significant damage that cannot be reversed. Now, on the plus side, it is documented, and when your engine fails prematurely, and it will, you will have recourse. have you noticed it burning any oil? At the very least they need to do a dry and wet compression check to make sure the rings haven't worn significantly. Here is a link with some information as to what happens when coolant gets in your oil.

As to the cause of the problem, you asked for a more clear explanation, I will give it a shot. Basically, the water pump is driven off the engine, and as such has a shaft with a seal around it that creates a pathway between the crank case and the water pump housing. The only thing block this path is the seal. The seal will protect against static pressures, doing it's job of separating oil and coolant, but if one side of the seal becomes pressurized, the pressure will try to equalize, and force itself to the other side of the seal. So if the water pump side becomes pressurized, the coolant will force it's way past the seal to relive the pressure until it is equal to the crankcase pressure. Pinching the vent line on the water pump prevents the internal pressure from equalizing with atmosphere. As the temperature changes in the pump, the pressure changes, if it cannot vent to atmosphere, it will build pressure. I will try to find an illustration somewhere. Hope this helps.

 

[chief]

Well, I am happy and sad at the same time here. I am happy that the problem was found, sad that it wasn't resolved properly. Coolant in an engine means rebuild time, I don't care who you are or what you say you will never convince me that ZERO damage was done to an engine with coolant contamination. Period. As to how much damage was done, that can't be known with certainty unless the engine is torn down. You could have minimal damage, and a cleaning and flushing of the engine will prevent future damage, or you may already have significant damage that cannot be reversed. Now, on the plus side, it is documented, and when your engine fails prematurely, and it will, you will have recourse. have you noticed it burning any oil? At the very least they need to do a dry and wet compression check to make sure the rings haven't worn significantly. Here is a link with some information as to what happens when coolant gets in your oil.

As to the cause of the problem, you asked for a more clear explanation, I will give it a shot. Basically, the water pump is driven off the engine, and as such has a shaft with a seal around it that creates a pathway between the crank case and the water pump housing. The only thing block this path is the seal. The seal will protect against static pressures, doing it's job of separating oil and coolant, but if one side of the seal becomes pressurized, the pressure will try to equalize, and force itself to the other side of the seal. So if the water pump side becomes pressurized, the coolant will force it's way past the seal to relive the pressure until it is equal to the crankcase pressure. Pinching the vent line on the water pump prevents the internal pressure from equalizing with atmosphere. As the temperature changes in the pump, the pressure changes, if it cannot vent to atmosphere, it will build pressure. I will try to find an illustration somewhere. Hope this helps.

thank you that helps. It never seemed to be losing any oil i was checking it regularly. and whats strange is that i didn't notice the milky looking oil till here lately, like in the past week. they know I'm pissed upset and all that but they are taking care of this their way. and I'm getting a contract or documentation or something saying if this brand new motor craps out early bc of this they are gonna give me another on for FREE. thanks ford truck man for the explanation this helps.

 

[Wi_Rider]

The thing I don't understand stand about this if that vent line is so critical, which it definitely sounds like, why is it not a hard line?

 

[FordTruckMan]

The thing I don't understand stand about this if that vent line is so critical, which it definitely sounds like, why is it not a hard line?

Great question. I will definitely check to see where mine is routed when I get a chance.

 

[chief]

Called the dealer back today and asked them what all parts are they replacing because he mentioned the parts were a week away from being here... He said they ordered a new vent hose, crank case gasket, mechanical seal for the pump, O-rings.... I think that is all, may have left one out.. Maybe someone can chime in here but that sounds like they are going to decent lengths to get this right. Not sure what all else should or could be replaced in a situation like this. Of course i just want to swap the motor out ha but we dont always get what we want.

 

[biker-ur2b12]

You said they noted the engine contamination due to a factory problem. What i would nail down with them is how long are they willing to replace the motor or major components when and if they fail after warranty. I would want that in writing. If they wont do 4 or 5 years you better get a YES warranty. Also dealers can negotiate price on them. I got a few hundred dollars off on a 4 year warranty when i got my wolverine because the sales rep wannted to sell it more than i wanted to buy and kept coming back with a better price. You can find them on ebay too. Good luck

 

[Hunterworks]

I have an "opinion"

I don't think this vent line would cause anything

As mentioned the same shaft that turns the oil pump turns the water pump

on the engine side there is a oil seal to keep oil in then there is a small space then there is the water pump seal. In the space between there is hole that the line is attached to

I say it is a drain line not vent. So if the oil seal fails, the oil runs out the tube, if the water seal fails it runs out the tube. This lets you know you have a problem with either seal without it going into the other. I do not believe there would be any pressure built up in anything, if pressure was built up it would push air into either the water or oil

Now if the tube is stopped up or bent in your case and the water seal fails then it has no where to go but past the oil seal. The seals have wipers on them that hold the oil back from going out but anything could pass rather easy going in.

So I would say keep this on concrete and look for coolant on the ground now coming out the seal on the water pump and now out your drain line

As far as the engine, well yes we want a new engine or new parts. But from their prospective, nothing wrong with it and until something is, nothing to fix.

They are also right on crate engines, just parts. I doubt anything is hurt but I would change the oil several times

Todd

 

[chief]

They did say over the phone that the GM wanted to talk with me about negotiating a price reduction on a warranty... I attempted to get a concrete answer on that issue you mentioned above about how long they will support me on any work this motor may need in the future, didn't really get one yet. But, they may use the warranty for that. They did say that any Yamaha dealer I got to anywhere in the country will be able to pull up the info about my bike if I bring it in with problems anywhere and they will be able to see that I had this happen and that it wasn't my fault and that it happened under warranty.... said all the details will be there so.... What exactly is a YES warranty???

 

[chief]

I have an "opinion"

I don't think this vent line would cause anything

As mentioned the same shaft that turns the oil pump turns the water pump

on the engine side there is a oil seal to keep oil in then there is a small space then there is the water pump seal. In the space between there is hole that the line is attached to

I say it is a drain line not vent. So if the oil seal fails, the oil runs out the tube, if the water seal fails it runs out the tube. This lets you know you have a problem with either seal without it going into the other. I do not believe there would be any pressure built up in anything, if pressure was built up it would push air into either the water or oil

Now if the tube is stopped up or bent in your case and the water seal fails then it has no where to go but past the oil seal. The seals have wipers on them that hold the oil back from going out but anything could pass rather easy going in.

So I would say keep this on concrete and look for coolant on the ground now coming out the seal on the water pump and now out your drain line

As far as the engine, well yes we want a new engine or new parts. But from their prospective, nothing wrong with it and until something is, nothing to fix.

They are also right on crate engines, just parts. I doubt anything is hurt but I would change the oil several times

Todd

preciate the input I def will keep a eye on any leaks when I get it back. the more input I get the more I can be looking for on the bike when I get it back. this is a bit of a tricky one. we will see if they can get it fixed up right with the new seals and what not.. hopefully so I need the thing running its the middle of deer season and all where im at.

 

[biker-ur2b12]

They did say over the phone that the GM wanted to talk with me about negotiating a price reduction on a warranty... I attempted to get a concrete answer on that issue you mentioned above about how long they will support me on any work this motor may need in the future, didn't really get one yet. But, they may use the warranty for that. They did say that any Yamaha dealer I got to anywhere in the country will be able to pull up the info about my bike if I bring it in with problems anywhere and they will be able to see that I had this happen and that it wasn't my fault and that it happened under warranty.... said all the details will be there so.... What exactly is a YES warranty???

YES is Yamaha Extended Service. It is sold and backed by yamaha. Not an aftermarket deal.

 

[FordTruckMan]

I have an "opinion"

I don't think this vent line would cause anything

As mentioned the same shaft that turns the oil pump turns the water pump

on the engine side there is a oil seal to keep oil in then there is a small space then there is the water pump seal. In the space between there is hole that the line is attached to

I say it is a drain line not vent. So if the oil seal fails, the oil runs out the tube, if the water seal fails it runs out the tube. This lets you know you have a problem with either seal without it going into the other. I do not believe there would be any pressure built up in anything, if pressure was built up it would push air into either the water or oil

Now if the tube is stopped up or bent in your case and the water seal fails then it has no where to go but past the oil seal. The seals have wipers on them that hold the oil back from going out but anything could pass rather easy going in.

So I would say keep this on concrete and look for coolant on the ground now coming out the seal on the water pump and now out your drain line

As far as the engine, well yes we want a new engine or new parts. But from their prospective, nothing wrong with it and until something is, nothing to fix.

They are also right on crate engines, just parts. I doubt anything is hurt but I would change the oil several times

Todd

This is excellent information Todd, I obviously misunderstood the location of this "vent" line. This is what I always saw as a weep hole on an automobile engine's waterpump, I didn't realize this was the same thing Chief was talking about. Thank you for correcting me.

To Chief, I apologize for giving you a bad bit of information. Thankfully, Todd was here to save the day lol. Regardless, I really do hope you get this thing fixed!

 

[blackgrizz550]

I had a 350 chevy with a leaky intake gasket that contaminated my oil. Changed the oil and fixed the gasket. 3 weeks later the motor grenaded. I hope you get an extended warranty out of this.

 

[chief]

I have an "opinion"

I don't think this vent line would cause anything

As mentioned the same shaft that turns the oil pump turns the water pump

on the engine side there is a oil seal to keep oil in then there is a small space then there is the water pump seal. In the space between there is hole that the line is attached to

I say it is a drain line not vent. So if the oil seal fails, the oil runs out the tube, if the water seal fails it runs out the tube. This lets you know you have a problem with either seal without it going into the other. I do not believe there would be any pressure built up in anything, if pressure was built up it would push air into either the water or oil

Now if the tube is stopped up or bent in your case and the water seal fails then it has no where to go but past the oil seal. The seals have wipers on them that hold the oil back from going out but anything could pass rather easy going in.

So I would say keep this on concrete and look for coolant on the ground now coming out the seal on the water pump and now out your drain line

As far as the engine, well yes we want a new engine or new parts. But from their prospective, nothing wrong with it and until something is, nothing to fix.

They are also right on crate engines, just parts. I doubt anything is hurt but I would change the oil several times

Todd

Okay can you tell me what you think really happened then if the drain line didn't pressure up and cause this. What do you think it could have happened here? Thanks