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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Came across this video today:


Some numbers for you

Viking

Displacement: : 686 cc
Compression ratio : 10:1
Horsepower : 46.9
Bore x Stroke : 102 mm x 84 mm = 1.21 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.554-.705:1
Low Range : 31/16 = 1.938
High Range : 30/21 = 1.429
Reverse : 23/14 x 28/23 = 2.0
Wet clutch in : 1950-2050 RPM
Wet clutch stall : 3550-3560 RPM

Gen 1 Wolverine

Displacement : 708 cc
Compression Ratio : 10:1
Horsepower : 47
Bore x Stroke : 103 mm x 85 mm = 1.21 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.474-.656:1
Low Range : 31/16 = 1.938
High Range : 30/22 = 1.364
Reverse : 23/14 x 28x23 = 2.0
Wet clutch in : 1950-2050 RPM
Wet clutch stall : 3550-3560 RPM

Wolverine X2/X4

Displacement : 847 cc
Compression Ratio : 10.5:1
Horsepower : 69
Bore x Stroke : 80 mm x 80.2 mm = .99 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.380-.710:1
Low Range : 53/21 = 2.524
High Range : 53/35 = 1.514
Reverse : 39/27 = 2.333
Wet clutch in : 2140-2540 RPM (those rubber pucks are doing their job)
Wet clutch stall : 3830-4330 RPM

Wolverine RMAX

Displacement : 999 cc
Compression Ratio : 11.2:1
Horsepower : 108
Bore x Stroke : 93 mm x 73.5 mm =1.26 ratio
Transmission : 2.789-0.676:1
Low Range : 53/21 = 2.524
High Range : 46/30 = 1.533
Reverse : 39/27 = 2.333
Wet clutch in :
Wet clutch stall :

Polaris General

Displacement : 999 cc
Compression Ratio : 10.5:1
Horsepower : 100
Bore x Stroke : 93 mm x 73.5 mm =1.26 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 3.18:1
Low Range :
High Range :
Reverse :

Kawasaki KRX

Displacement : 999 cc
Compression Ratio : 11.5:1
Horsepower : 112
Bore x Stroke : 92 mm x 75.1 mm = 1.23 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.785-.743:1
Low Range : 42/20 = 8.867
High Range : 32/30 = 4.504
Reverse : 32/20 = 6.756
Wet clutch engagement: ~1500 RPM

Kawasaki Teryx

Displacement : 783 cc
Compression Ratio : 10.7:1
Horsepower : 57.6
Bore x Stroke : 85 mm x 69 mm = 1.23 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 3.04-.78:1
Low Range : 53/21 = 3.01
High Range : 53/35 = 5.09
Reverse : 39/27 = 4.19
Wet clutch engagement: ~1500 RPM

Honda Pioneer 1000

Displacement : 1000 cc
Compression Ratio : 10:1
Horsepower : 71
Bore x Stroke : 92 mm x 75 mm = 1.23 ratio
Transmission : see https://hondasxs.com/attachments/pioneer-dct-gears11-xlsx.93419/


Now, I've been saying ever since the X4 was introduced that the 847 cc engine is a stroker motor (technically it's nearly square BUT compared to the competition and the previous generation it's a stroker). All these other engines with their ~1.23 bore-to-stroke ratio are better designed for higher RPM breathing in comparison and respond to those types of mods better (including clutching mods such as lighter primary weights/heavier secondary springs)

The massive low RPM engine torque, higher wet clutch engagement, and massive secondary spring are why you can leave the X2/X4 in high gear and not break a sweat whereas if you try to do the same with the previous generations and/or competition you're going to burn up a wet clutch/DCT or blow/dramatically lower the life of your belt. The much-beefier CVT system (from larger belt, to larger sheaves, to larger wet clutch) stand up to the additional strain.

Roller weights are the only component that hasn't changed and I believe they're a now a consumable item if you rack up thousands of miles on your X2/X4 (in stock grease, JBS OD weights, or even Hunterworks HV weights) although HV weights will still outlast stock weights. OD weights are going to have more stiction in an X2/X4 application than Gen 1 simply because you have much higher forces at work. This is probably the same reason why we were seeing scalping of HV weights in testing and final sheave milling was adjusted accordingly. For the record I now believe flat\spotting and scalping are two different problems, the latter you won't see in production but you may still see long term flat spotting of ANY weight.
 

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Good info. Nice seeing the comparisons. Yep our motors are torque monsters for sure.
 

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That guy in the video is one of the best orators I have ever seen.. would be a great professor if he is not. Good interesting info for those with a side of their brain that is receptive. This discussion makes me think of a reported germane quote by the great Carrol Shelby: "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."
 

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If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
 

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Excellent info Massive! Thanks!

Surprised the X2 vs Honda1000 is only a 2 hp difference, considering it will pull 72mph before hitting the limiter... CVT vs Gears.
 

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Good info for sure. Our motors do provide good torque, but theres no replacement for displacement!
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Excellent info Massive! Thanks!

Surprised the X2 vs Honda1000 is only a 2 hp difference, considering it will pull 72mph before hitting the limiter... CVT vs Gears.
Wet clutch robs some power and Yamaha could redo high gear so it could go faster as well.
 

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If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
Well what someone either told me or I heard long ago. Its Torque that gets you moving and HP the keeps you moving.. Now, you have something to think about. LOL
 

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If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
Well what someone either told me or I heard long ago. Its Torque that gets you moving and HP the keeps you moving.. Now, you have something to think about. LOL
 

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Hey Massive, i haven't been able to get in touch with Weller Racing lately. Have you or anyone else heard from Kyle on his turbo kit he was testing? (for the X2)
Nobody answering phone, web site unavailable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Turbo kit is still scheduled for production. Website is up for me as well. Try calling now, you may have called before business hours (they're in Arizona).
 
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Discussion Starter #12
OP to be updated next Thursday ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Anyone know the weight of the stock roller weights in the primary Sheave of the new Viking?
As far as I know, the stock rollers should be 21-22 grams.
 

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Here is the KRX info if you want to add it I believe it and the Rmax will be competitors.



Displacement : 999 cc
Compression Ratio : 11.5:1
Horsepower : 112
Bore x Stroke : 92 mm x 75.1 mm = 1.23 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.785-.743:1
Low Range : 8.867
High Range : 4.504
Reverse : 6.756
Wet clutch engagement: ~1500 RPM

I cant find official clutch numbers but the 1500 rpm from the teryx sounds good. It drags at high idle enough to keep it from shifting, which is 1350 rpm and has no drag at a normal idle of 1250.
 
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Here is the KRX info if you want to add it I believe it and the Rmax will be competitors.



Displacement : 999 cc
Compression Ratio : 11.5:1
Horsepower : 112
Bore x Stroke : 92 mm x 75.1 mm = 1.23 ratio
Transmission : CVT ratio 2.785-.743:1
Low Range : 8.867
High Range : 4.504
Reverse : 6.756
Wet clutch engagement: ~1500 RPM

I cant find official clutch numbers but the 1500 rpm from the teryx sounds good. It drags at high idle enough to keep it from shifting, which is 1350 rpm and has no drag at a normal idle of 1250.
Thanks, perfect timing. The KRX wasn't really a competitor to the X2/X4 in that they're different classes of vehicles, so I didn't bother to include it previously, and I'm not confirming/denying that it's a competitor to the RMAX, BUT the RMAX is certainly a better candidate than the X2/X4. What pump gas rating does the KRX require? 91?
 

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Thanks, perfect timing. The KRX wasn't really a competitor to the X2/X4 in that they're different classes of vehicles, so I didn't bother to include it previously, and I'm not confirming/denying that it's a competitor to the RMAX, BUT the RMAX is certainly a better candidate than the X2/X4. What pump gas rating does the KRX require? 91?
I'm not sure how they pull it off, but it calls for and runs fine on 87. I'm not planning on doing any tunes even though there is a lot to gain because they all need 93 afterwards. Many stations in rural OH,PA and WV only have 1 pump and it's 87.
 
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Looks good so far

 
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It won't be running a power commander. It will be tuned with Power Vision 3.
 
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