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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, so I had to remove and replace my 2" front Perfex lift to see if it was causing my 4wd vibration. It wasn't. However, in removing and replacing, jacking up, and watching the droop, etc. it got me thinking.

In MY case...I adjusted the preload on all 4 of my shocks to the SOFTEST LOWEST setting that I could...effectively LOWERING the whole car. Wanting to maintain the SOFT RIDE, but wanting it a little higher in the front...I installed a PERFEX 2" lift in the FRONT ONLY to get my ride height back. And I've been using it like that for a few months with no issues and I like the stance AND The ride.
Only concern this way: Possibly too much droop (when hanging a front wheel) and possibility of breaking cv joint...I've been contemplating limiting straps. Other than that, I like it. Front sway bar left installed to partially compensate till I get limiting straps.

So today, I removed the lift and noticed the "droop" or "sag" required to get the lift out and reinstall as stock, then put the lift back in. When I was out this last weekend, I bottomed out on the front end once or twice. My goal is to keep the height and keep the nice ride...hence lowering the shock adjustment, then installing the 2" lift. In looking at the geometry and sag today...it looks like I can remove the lift, adjust the preload on the shock (really, not adjusting preload, it's just adjusting SAG...literally RIDE HEIGHT) and achieve the same SOFT ride that I have now, the same exact LIFT that I have now...ACHIEVE MORE TRAVEL IN THE SHOCK and ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR LIMITING STRAPS.

Am I thinking wrong?
Go with me here (and I'm thinking out loud, I haven't done it yet...)...due to the geometry of the front end, to achieve a 2" lift...it only really requires a little over an inch at the shock mount (the Perfex lift is really a little over an inch between the holes). Well, I can do that with the shock adjustment also and it does not compress the spring at all when the car is on the ground any more than when it's at it's softest (shortest) setting. (Again, those of you who already have it adjusted out to the max, you would still need the lift to lift it anymore...but I don't since I'm riding at the softest setting) This is hard to explain...but due to the "sag" or weight of the car on the spring...that first inch of adjustment is literally ride height. It's not preloading the spring at all, it's just LENGTHENING the shock (longer)...hence the RIDE is the same, it's no stiffer or rougher than if the shock was adjusted all the way "soft" (short).
What this would achieve is: (I think)
1. A full extra inch of travel at the SHOCK which is almost 2" at the wheel before bottoming.
2. No need for limiting straps to prevent damage to the CV joints.
3. My RIDE stays the same.
4. My HEIGHT stays the same.
Again, am I off base here? (in my situation where I am currently riding with the shortest setting and a lift?)

In my case, I think that adjusting the shock out an inch instead of using a lift is actually better for me?

I want to hear everyone's opinion on this. I don't think I'm thinking incorrectly here!

Now again...If I already had my shocks adjusted out as far as they could go and still wanted to go higher...yes, a lift is necessary. But for me...that first inch is literally ride height. It's really not "preloading" the spring at all.

Thoughts?
 

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If you put limiting straps on to compensate for the lift extra travel, what have you gained other than getting to spend some money?
If you adjust preload for the lift, your shock extension limit stays the same as does the CV angle at full extension. You only limit to some degree the a-arm travel in the up position till the spring bottoms (totally compresses) and that may or may not be limiting your full suspension travel depending on your springs and load.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you put limiting straps on to compensate for the lift extra travel, what have you gained other than getting to spend some money?
If you adjust preload for the lift, your shock extension limit stays the same as does the CV angle at full extension. You only limit to some degree the a-arm travel in the up position till the spring bottoms (totally compresses) and that may or may not be limiting your full suspension travel depending on your springs and load.
That is exactly what I was thinking also...I may go out and experiment a little with it today...it's fast and easy to try. And really, with the lift on it, when the shock/spring bottoms, my a-arms are already limited more than they would be without the lift on it...honestly, I think in my case, I gain all the way around...thank you for the comment, that kind of confirmed what I was thinking!
 

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My machine is different.
But i wanted more height/Lift and achieved it along for my tires at the rear to clear better on hard dips. The only way to mitigate it is to set the FOX shock hard impact setting to resist it bottoming more. Never the less at max compression I can ride hard through the dips and holes a lot faster if I want to and my body can take it. This goes for the ones I bottom out on as well. The machine suspension absorbs it better as well. As long as I am willing to push myself at ~25km/hr Faster than normal. Thats really moving for me at 70km/hr of rail bed and rough holely surface. My tires give a bit to add the absorbing the bashing.

I know from a ton of reading that a lift is only getting you 1.x of and inch more lift in reality and not enough for the investment and altering the mount points.
 

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2021 X2 XT-R 850
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@N.E.T.O. Are you running 8 ply rated tires? What tire pressure front/rear?
My curiosity stems from the fact that my (now totaled) 2020 X2 XTR had no anti-sway bars with stock Dirt Commanders up front and Kenda Bear Claw HTRs in back both at 7psi. All in an effort to tailor the ride to my liking. Never touched the shocks. I am suspicious that this approach may have been a contributing factor in 2 unfortunate events. One, where it was laid on the driver side in a slow off camber maneuver. The other was the flip and roll that totaled it.
I am not saying it did, just suspicious that it may be a factor.
On the new machine, I will leave the sway bars in place and connected. I will work with shocks and psi to try to achieve the ride I desire.
Hence, your findings are of interest to me.
Harry
 

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I am running 9-10PSI on my HTR's. Less during the winter which was 7PSI. No need for double digit PSI, at least not on these. They have a pretty robust sidewall.

PS: My sway bar are active as the machine came.
 
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Damm, yes the tires are 8 Ply Rated (Kenda Bearclaw HTR)

Sorry, I missed that request.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@N.E.T.O. Are you running 8 ply rated tires? What tire pressure front/rear?
My curiosity stems from the fact that my (now totaled) 2020 X2 XTR had no anti-sway bars with stock Dirt Commanders up front and Kenda Bear Claw HTRs in back both at 7psi. All in an effort to tailor the ride to my liking. Never touched the shocks. I am suspicious that this approach may have been a contributing factor in 2 unfortunate events. One, where it was laid on the driver side in a slow off camber maneuver. The other was the flip and roll that totaled it.
I am not saying it did, just suspicious that it may be a factor.
On the new machine, I will leave the sway bars in place and connected. I will work with shocks and psi to try to achieve the ride I desire.
Hence, your findings are of interest to me.
Harry
My tires are 8 ply, Interco Sniper 920's front and rear. They are exactly the same stock size (27x11-12 and 27x9-12) front and rear, and mounted on the stock rims. I wanted a DOT approved tire and something a little more pavement friendly, other than that, they are pretty much identical to the stock. Felt weird dismounting those perfectly good Dirt Commanders, but I kept them and bought a new set of rims for when I do go on those dirt-only trips. 11 psi front and 13 psi rear, which is the lowest stated on the sticker inside the car, below the drivers seat. Same as I ran with the Dirt Commanders. My front sway bar is still installed, and I have disconnects on the rear. I usually ride with the swaybars connected until I encounter areas where I need that extra articulation, then pull the pins and the rear is disconnected.
I asked @SKELLEY521 to help me out with the initial shock adjustments and did that all the way around and they have been basically perfect! (basically full soft all the way around everything, other than the rebound on the rear is jacked up a bit to prevent reciprocal bouncing...) I loved my setup, BUT always worried about hanging a front wheel in the air under power (which I did do occasionally) and ruining a CV joint. I was going to get limiting straps. Based on this discussion...I think I don't need to anymore.

I just went outside and REMOVED my PERFEX 2" front lift, and adjusted the shocks from their "shortest" position, to their "longest" position. This is approximately 1" of adjustment. The end result?...my ride height is within about 1/8" of being exactly the same in the front. Yup, that's right...due to the magic of Geometry...1 inch at the shock equals about 1 3/4 at the front bumper!!!
Here is what I think I accomplished:
1. I lost exactly 1.5" of downward travel (jacked it up before and after till wheel was off the ground) which means I no longer have to worry about limiting straps.
2. I think I GAINED an inch of shock travel (up), which means my TIRES can go about 1.5" farther UP into the wheelwell.
3. My ride height basically stayed the SAME and the ride feels the SAME.

In the manual, it refers to the preload adjustment as "soft" and "firm"...and I believe that is the case if you were really preloading them...but because of sag, my resting spring length is the same so really it's just "shortening" or "lengthening" the shock...ie: Adjusting the RIDE HEIGHT ONLY.

So...I'll drive it a while to see if it really is the same other than not worrying about limiting straps and breaking CV joints...:) but really, here is the bottom line: The FULL LENGHTEN adjustment on the shocks is exactly equal to the FULL SHORTEN adjustment + the PERFEX front lift kit. It is literally identical. And in my case, before I figured out that the adjustment is literally ride height rather than "soft" and "hard", I wanted the soft ride, but the height. And I still have that (I think) by adjusting them all the way out on the fronts. Time will tell. I'll keep you posted! Perfex front lift NOT for sale yet...but it might be in a few weeks...

Now, for those that want to max out the shock adjustment and still want more lift...cheaply...the Perfex front lift is the way to go of course.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My machine is different.
But i wanted more height/Lift and achieved it along for my tires at the rear to clear better on hard dips. The only way to mitigate it is to set the FOX shock hard impact setting to resist it bottoming more. Never the less at max compression I can ride hard through the dips and holes a lot faster if I want to and my body can take it. This goes for the ones I bottom out on as well. The machine suspension absorbs it better as well. As long as I am willing to push myself at ~25km/hr Faster than normal. Thats really moving for me at 70km/hr of rail bed and rough holely surface. My tires give a bit to add the absorbing the bashing.

I know from a ton of reading that a lift is only getting you 1.x of and inch more lift in reality and not enough for the investment and altering the mount points.
Yup, I agree! If you NEED the lift for bigger tires, etc. the lift is the way to go to achieve that extra clearance. In my case, I need to stay LOW (to fit in my toy hauler) but didn't like the "stinkbug" look it had when it was new. Just that little lift in the front did it for me. Plus I can still see stop lights without bending down inside the cab! :)
 
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