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Mods and clutching

This is a discussion on Mods and clutching within the X2/X4 CVT, Sheaves & Wet Clutch forums, part of the Yamaha Wolverine X2 & X4 847cc SxS category; From what I’m gathering. I differ from everyone else’s idea of maintainable speed. This is where I think our differences are in numbers. For a ...

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Thread: Mods and clutching

  1. #101
    Mountaineer 19Wherry's Avatar
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    From what I’m gathering. I differ from everyone else’s idea of maintainable speed. This is where I think our differences are in numbers. For a dirt trail machine I was hoping to maintain 60 mph and not have it labor to get there. All my testing is in shorter distances .25 to .35 miles on dirt road. I feel like everyone else is getting these numbers in ideal conditions on paved roads over longer distances. Not on a trail. My idea usable power and speed. So when I get up on my trip I am confident on paved roads higher tire pressure and longer distances I will see 60. As far as the HMF I am a firm believer the rpm to power range does not work as good as the stock exhaust with JBS clutching. This was one of many conversations I’ve had with Kyle and he agrees but needs to test with JBS clutching to get the tune right with the HMF and JBS clutching.

  2. #102
    Supporting Vendor Hunterworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Wherry View Post
    From what I’m gathering. I differ from everyone else’s idea of maintainable speed. This is where I think our differences are in numbers. For a dirt trail machine I was hoping to maintain 60 mph and not have it labor to get there. All my testing is in shorter distances .25 to .35 miles on dirt road. I feel like everyone else is getting these numbers in ideal conditions on paved roads over longer distances. Not on a trail. My idea usable power and speed. So when I get up on my trip I am confident on paved roads higher tire pressure and longer distances I will see 60. As far as the HMF I am a firm believer the rpm to power range does not work as good as the stock exhaust with JBS clutching. This was one of many conversations I’ve had with Kyle and he agrees but needs to test with JBS clutching to get the tune right with the HMF and JBS clutching.
    Assuming you have OD weights not round you will find if you swap that it accelerates faster with round. OD weights are taller so the put the clutch in "overdrive" from bottom to top. Same thing as when I did some testing with some weights that were 2mm larger in diameter, rpm was lower and acceleration was slower. OD weights also flat spot on the bottom because they do not get to turn as they move out.

    Keep in mind I am the guy who created the original OD weights for the Yamaha.

    But if you are only testing 1/4 mile that is part of it too, these vehicles are too low HP to accelerate that quickly.

    Todd
    338weatherby and blast like this.
    Todd Eldridge
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  3. #103
    Mountaineer 19Wherry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 19Wherry View Post
    From what I’m gathering. I differ from everyone else’s idea of maintainable speed. This is where I think our differences are in numbers. For a dirt trail machine I was hoping to maintain 60 mph and not have it labor to get there. All my testing is in shorter distances .25 to .35 miles on dirt road. I feel like everyone else is getting these numbers in ideal conditions on paved roads over longer distances. Not on a trail. My idea usable power and speed. So when I get up on my trip I am confident on paved roads higher tire pressure and longer distances I will see 60. As far as the HMF I am a firm believer the rpm to power range does not work as good as the stock exhaust with JBS clutching. This was one of many conversations I’ve had with Kyle and he agrees but needs to test with JBS clutching to get the tune right with the HMF and JBS clutching.
    Assuming you have OD weights not round you will find if you swap that it accelerates faster with round. OD weights are taller so the put the clutch in "overdrive" from bottom to top. Same thing as when I did some testing with some weights that were 2mm larger in diameter, rpm was lower and acceleration was slower. OD weights also flat spot on the bottom because they do not get to turn as they move out.

    Keep in mind I am the guy who created the original OD weights for the Yamaha.

    But if you are only testing 1/4 mile that is part of it too, these vehicles are too low HP to accelerate that quickly.

    Todd
    Yes using OD weights my bottom end and mid is fantastic. Can’t keep power to the ground. Top end is good to wish I could get more out of it but as you have said I’m at the limit of the machines power. I should of read more into all the clutching posts. My fault. I was assuming guys were getting 60 mph speed on trail or 2 track. These higher speeds people are posting are more paved roads with higher tire pressures longer distances etc.

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  5. #104
    Supporting Vendor Hunterworks's Avatar
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    I guess I am a little confused now, you have been talking about how you are not as quick as others then in last post you said your mid is great, it can't be both ways.

    I was explaining why you might be having that issue and that is OD weights are taller and less rpm through shift phase
    Todd Eldridge
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  6. #105
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    I think what Wherry is trying to say is that he has seen improvements to the machine's system, but hasn't gotten the results that others seem to be getting (MPH related). Wherry's test area doesn't allow him for a very long run (.25-.35 mile) on dirt, whereas others are taking a mile or 2 on pavement and getting results that are 5-8MPH faster.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Wherry's machine is actually doing REALLY good compared to some of the others that are using a long hill on pavement to reach their numbers. And I also believe that we all have put a little too much on how fast the machine can go, vs being concerned with it performing at the optimum levels for the 80-90% of our actual riding.

    I will also say that I think that my machine performs quite nicely for what it is, but it is no drag racer. It has the low end that I am looking for (maybe still a little more than I want/need), and it gets up to speed nicely. On the trails there are a couple of spots that I can go pretty fast but it takes a while (more than 1/2 mile) for me to get to or just over 60MPH, but it WILL do it. Once there, it seems to be able to hold nicely.

    I really think that Wherry has put in the effort trying to better his machine with what was available when he started. He has went from Stock exhaust to HMF and back to Stock; and he has even changed more greased weights than I would ever consider doing.
    Budro2, 338weatherby and erik like this.
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  7. #106
    Gear Grinder DWRAT's Avatar
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    Just for reference, I can hit 57 mph on GPS in just over a 1/4 mile.
    My only mods are 29" tires and 20-gram clutch weights.
    Same top speed results with 16-gram weights, 22-gram weights were a touch too heavy and hurt my ability to hit top speed in a short distance.
    MassiveOverkill and Budro2 like this.
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  8. #107
    Mountaineer 19Wherry's Avatar
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    Nothing official. .75 to 1 mile. 61-62 mph on pavement at 15psi. Struggled to get there would not call it maintainable. 18 gram weights.
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  9. #108
    Mountaineer 19Wherry's Avatar
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    Back home. So as above with the 18 gram weights tire psi at 15 which i normally run 10 with my beadlocks I can hit 61-62 on pavement. It is not maintainable. So I believe it’s just my machine, nothing wrong with it. Just the way I have it set up with accessories etc. Stock exhaust on trail is much better as well compared to my last trip with the HMF. The throttle response was back and no bog. On Michigan trails (which are sandy) I’m able to maintain 50mph at 10psi which I normally run. As time goes by and more products are avaliable and more fine tuned I believe We will see a 60mph trail speed. Just going to time as guys produce more products as I know there are a lot being tested now and in the works.
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  10. #109
    Super Moderator MassiveOverkill's Avatar
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    I believe that the reason that you're experiencing negative performance with the HMF exhaust is because the shim is causing a mismatch between the altered torque curve and the shim\sheave combo along with the 18 gram weights, which should be bumped up to at least 20 gram when you add the exhaust.
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  11. #110
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    Threw my 20g weights in last night and did a few runs, it will now hit and max out at 62mph - i tried up and down that 3km road about 5 times and it would get up to 60 and then slowly crawl to 62. 55-57 was maintainable on the road with 10psi in the tires, it had no problem whatsoever staying and running 50-52mph without being pushed.
    Last edited by Alex; 07-16-2019 at 12:54 PM.
    MassiveOverkill likes this.
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