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Bore and Stroke vs Clutching

This is a discussion on Bore and Stroke vs Clutching within the X2/X4 Engine forums, part of the Yamaha Wolverine X2 & X4 847cc SxS category; Came across this video today: Some numbers for you Viking Displacement: : 686 cc Compression ratio : 10:1 Horsepower : 46.9 Bore x Stroke : ...

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  1. #1
    Super Moderator MassiveOverkill's Avatar
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    Bore and Stroke vs Clutching

    Came across this video today:



    Some numbers for you

    Viking

    Displacement: : 686 cc
    Compression ratio : 10:1
    Horsepower : 46.9
    Bore x Stroke : 102 mm x 84 mm = 1.21 ratio
    Transmission : CVT ratio 2.554-.705:1
    Low Range : 31/16 = 1.938
    High Range : 30/21 = 1.429
    Reverse : 23/14 x 28/23 = 2.0
    Wet clutch in : 1950-2050 RPM
    Wet clutch stall : 3550-3560 RPM

    Gen 1 Wolverine

    Displacement : 708 cc
    Compression Ratio : 10:1
    Horsepower : 47
    Bore x Stroke : 103 mm x 85 mm = 1.21 ratio
    Transmission : CVT ratio 2.474-.656:1
    Low Range : 31/16 = 1.938
    High Range : 30/22 = 1.364
    Reverse : 23/14 x 28x23 = 2.0
    Wet clutch in : 1950-2050 RPM
    Wet clutch stall : 3550-3560 RPM

    Wolverine X2/X4

    Displacement : 847 cc
    Compression Ratio : 10.5:1
    Horsepower : 69
    Bore x Stroke : 80 mm x 80.2 mm = .99 ratio
    Transmission : CVT ratio 2.380-.710:1
    Low Range : 53/21 = 2.524
    High Range : 53/35 = 1.514
    Reverse : 39/27 = 2.333
    Wet clutch in : 2140-2540 RPM (those rubber pucks are doing their job)
    Wet clutch stall : 3830-4330 RPM

    Kawasaki Teryx

    Displacement : 783 cc
    Compression Ratio : 10.7:1
    Horsepower : 57.6
    Bore x Stroke : 85 mm x 69 mm = 1.23 ratio
    Transmission : CVT ratio 3.04-.78:1
    Low Range : 53/21 = 3.01
    High Range : 53/35 = 5.09
    Reverse : 39/27 = 4.19
    Wet clutch engagement: ~1500 RPM

    Honda Pioneer 1000

    Displacement : 1000 cc
    Compression Ratio : 10:1
    Horsepower : 71
    Bore x Stroke : 92 mm x 75 mm = 1.23 ratio
    Transmission : see https://hondasxs.com/attachments/pio...11-xlsx.93419/

    Now, I've been saying ever since the X4 was introduced that the 847 cc engine is a stroker motor (technically it's nearly square BUT compared to the competition and the previous generation it's a stroker). All these other engines with their ~1.23 bore-to-stroke ratio are better designed for higher RPM breathing in comparison and respond to those types of mods better (including clutching mods such as lighter primary weights/heavier secondary springs)

    The massive low RPM engine torque, higher wet clutch engagement, and massive secondary spring are why you can leave the X2/X4 in high gear and not break a sweat whereas if you try to do the same with the previous generations and/or competition you're going to burn up a wet clutch/DCT or blow/dramatically lower the life of your belt. The much-beefier CVT system (from larger belt, to larger sheaves, to larger wet clutch) stand up to the additional strain.

    Roller weights are the only component that hasn't changed and I believe they're a now a consumable item if you rack up thousands of miles on your X2/X4 (in stock grease, JBS OD weights, or even Hunterworks HV weights) although HV weights will still outlast stock weights. OD weights are going to have more stiction in an X2/X4 application than Gen 1 simply because you have much higher forces at work. This is probably the same reason why we were seeing scalping of HV weights in testing and final sheave milling was adjusted accordingly. For the record I now believe flat\spotting and scalping are two different problems, the latter you won't see in production but you may still see long term flat spotting of ANY weight.
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  2. #2
    Evil Kenevil InfidelMT's Avatar
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    Good info. Nice seeing the comparisons. Yep our motors are torque monsters for sure.
    MassiveOverkill likes this.
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  3. #3
    Black Magic jimclemjr's Avatar
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    That guy in the video is one of the best orators I have ever seen.. would be a great professor if he is not. Good interesting info for those with a side of their brain that is receptive. This discussion makes me think of a reported germane quote by the great Carrol Shelby: "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."
    blast, Budro2 and MassiveOverkill like this.
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  5. #4
    Black Magic jimclemjr's Avatar
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    If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
    2016 Wolverine R-spec EPS- Black , JBS CVT grind, 16 gr OD, Purple, slugs, JBS rad guards, Autometer Temp Gauge, Alba Racing Reflash, SATV A-arms & DIY stick guards, Flip wshield, Auto tie rod ends, Dual batts/man switch, ALS defeat, Method 14" B-locks, YXZ wheel studs, 28" 9 & 11 BH 2.0, 4000# Moto Max winch, Yama trunk, 20" single row roof light bar, Rigid D pods on bumper, 3"rear cage lower, harness bar and 4 pt harn, JBS/Eibach springs, SPAL fan, ACM doors, Lexan moonroof, Pyle rear cam

  6. #5
    Gear Grinder 1slo_CR's Avatar
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    Excellent info Massive! Thanks!

    Surprised the X2 vs Honda1000 is only a 2 hp difference, considering it will pull 72mph before hitting the limiter... CVT vs Gears.
    MassiveOverkill likes this.
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    Paper Boy
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    Good info for sure. Our motors do provide good torque, but theres no replacement for displacement!
    MassiveOverkill likes this.
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  8. #7
    Super Moderator MassiveOverkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1slo_CR View Post
    Excellent info Massive! Thanks!

    Surprised the X2 vs Honda1000 is only a 2 hp difference, considering it will pull 72mph before hitting the limiter... CVT vs Gears.
    Wet clutch robs some power and Yamaha could redo high gear so it could go faster as well.
    1slo_CR, Rockit401, Cam53 and 1 others like this.
    2018 Blue Wolverine X4, 124th unit built at Georgia
    First Wolverine X4 to break the 60 MPH barrier
    Over 9000 miles and 600 hours
    Hunterworks prototype sheave with easy cleanout port, 20 gram HV weights
    Dynojet Power Vision 3
    HMF Titan Series Quiet slip-on Exhaust
    Walker Evans shocks
    Swiss-cheesed airbox lid
    NGK Laser Iridium spark plugs
    Tinkseal additives and all synthetic fluids
    STI HD beadlocks wearing Tusk Terrabite 27x9x12 tires
    OEM windshield, soft cab, and roof
    OEM skid plates
    OEM rock sliders
    OEM A-arm guards
    OEM cargo box
    Check out the Yamaha X2/X4 FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WolverineX2X4/

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    Ninja Tripplec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimclemjr View Post
    If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
    Well what someone either told me or I heard long ago. Its Torque that gets you moving and HP the keeps you moving.. Now, you have something to think about. LOL
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  10. #9
    Ninja Tripplec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimclemjr View Post
    If you struggle with understanding the difference between torque and horsepower, Mr Shelby also reportedly said: "Horsepower determines how fast you hit the wall, Torque determines how far you move it." I love that...…….
    Well what someone either told me or I heard long ago. Its Torque that gets you moving and HP the keeps you moving.. Now, you have something to think about. LOL
    2017 Wolverine RSPec SE
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    >4000 km and going April 2020
    BearClaw HTR 27 inch tires
    Half windshield
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  11. #10
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    Hey Massive, i haven't been able to get in touch with Weller Racing lately. Have you or anyone else heard from Kyle on his turbo kit he was testing? (for the X2)
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