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Interesting belt temperature facts!

This is a discussion on Interesting belt temperature facts! within the CVT, Sheaves & Wet Clutch forums, part of the Yamaha Wolverine Gen 1 708 cc SxS category; I do a lot of winter/spring riding in some fairly deep snow at times. I’ve always known that the deeper the snow gets the quicker ...

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Thread: Interesting belt temperature facts!

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    Speed Demon Budro2's Avatar
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    Interesting belt temperature facts!

    I do a lot of winter/spring riding in some fairly deep snow at times. I’ve always known that the deeper the snow gets the quicker the CVT heat goes up. I lost my 1st belt do to cover contact churning through deep snow with aggressive 28” tires which pretty well have the CVT capabilities maxed out IMO. After modding the cover and taking the belt contact factor out of play I started feeling the temperature of the cover with my hand in those situations and was alarmed at how hot it would get at times when really working it in those high load situations vs normal riding. I decided to install a Razorback belt temperature gauge in it so I could find out what it’s really doing in there.
    My 1st ride I had worn out 28” CST Clinchers on, that only measure 26” tall. Outside temperature was 30*F so the air being pulled in is pretty cool and will likely have it running cooler than summer time. I have the HW sheave and I’m running a 1mm shim so at 5 MPH and lower when it’s in its lowest ratio I expect to have a little higher temperatures than those running smaller and lighter tires with stock sheaves or no shim! I took it to a place with a long continuous up hill grade of varying terrain, about 3” of snow, with top speeds below 10MPH and often as low as 3-5 crawling but not terribly technical. The highest temperature I saw while driving was 183 with it varying mostly between 160-175. When on mostly flat terrain or even 2-4% grade temps run about 150-165.
    One consistent thing no matter the temperature of the belt is when you stop for any reason the temperature of the belt quickly jumps up 10-15 degrees then after about 2 minutes it will start dropping back down. If you start moving again it starts going back down immediately as the air movement begins again but it comes down much slower than when it spikes when you stop. This is important to note because when under heavy load let’s say 6-8” of snow, your moving along and it’s managing a constant 180 degrees, suddenly you stop, maybe you spun out and need to back up. When you do now it jumped to 190. You start moving but it’s working and it slowly comes down to 185, you spin out and stop motion and it hits 195 maybe 200 if you sit very long before movement begins. In no time at all your approaching critical temperatures. I created this very situation on purpose on my second ride to see if my suspicions were correct. Today I had on 28” Evos with good tread that measure 27” tall. For the same type of driving as the previous day I noticed no difference in temperatures. I then took it to some deeper snow and got it up between 200-210 for a short time once. The snow was 12-14” deep, crusted underneath and it was a very steep grade so I had spun out and had to take multiple runs at it. When I’d back up and stop to go forward if the temp was over 190 I just put it in neutral and spin it to decrease the temperature then I’d hit it again and it really wouldn’t jump back up until I spun out and stopped again. I’ve got over 1200 miles on this belt and just serviced my sheaves and checked it and it looked great. When the temp hit 200 I felt the cover and it wasn’t alarming at all so I know in the past a few times I’ve reached temps much higher than acceptable when lugging through deep snow and getting stuck and backing up etc. I drove all over in snow 6-12” deep today and when hitting the deeper sections I could watch it climb a little but then it would stabilize and maintain a new temperature as long as movement continues, then if the snow depth decreased it began to drop as expected. When running say 12MPH and id back out of it to to a slower speed where the CVT was in a lower ratio the temperature would also start jumping up as expected but for normal driving in acceptable snow conditions where I wasn’t spinning out, I never got over 185 and that was only temporary.
    Something very surprising to me was what I learned regarding low vs high. Now we’ve all read and been told to live in low below 30MPH because low pulls more air through and keeps the belt cooler! Makes sense to me and I’ve always done it unless cruising on flat ground or down hill when tired of hearing the RPMs. What I can tell you is that for general driving, low speed, high speed, 3-6” snow, short uphill sections down hill..... there is virtually no difference in temps between low and high. The only difference you notice is how hard the engine is working so obviously very steep or long grades or deep snow low makes sense. I drove all types of terrain at varying speeds and would note the speed and temperature, then duplicate it in high and up to about 22 MPH it usually if anything ran around 3 degrees cooler in high. I’m not even going to try to understand that! In the 25-30 MPH range it ran just slightly cooler in low but none of it was enough to even worry about. As for me I’m going to be doing a lot more driving in high in the future. My ears and my engine are both going to be happier when cruising around. Even in the 10-15 MPH range so long as there’s no technical terrain or long uphill sections. With the 1mm shim my starting ratio in high works really well too so I don’t feel like I’m taxing the clutch to get going. I’ll report back in the hot time of year on my findings regarding low vs high when the air going in isn’t quite as cool!
    Last edited by Budro2; 12-28-2019 at 11:35 PM.
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    Black Magic
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    Extremely interesting especially if a fellow is using the machine for plowing. Speeds are slower and more stop/go as well as reverse scenario's. I am currently using my Kingquad 750, but one day I may decide to put a plow on the wolverine. Cooking a belt or worst is something none of us want especially in the winter. It far too hard to get at these belts. I've driven mine in snow this year but much faster30-55km/hr in 4-8 inches on a trail.

    With ambient temp down around freezing cooling shouldn't be a problem even in heavy load situations if the air flow engineering is adequate. Thats very hot air and the contact surface temp of the belt and sheaves will be much higher than the air temp you're reading.
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    Speed Demon Piston Yamaha's Avatar
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    Good data! Thanks for sharing.
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    Speed Demon Budro2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplec View Post
    Extremely interesting especially if a fellow is using the machine for plowing. Speeds are slower and more stop/go as well as reverse scenario's. I am currently using my Kingquad 750, but one day I may decide to put a plow on the wolverine. Cooking a belt or worst is something none of us want especially in the winter. It far too hard to get at these belts. I've driven mine in snow this year but much faster30-55km/hr in 4-8 inches on a trail.

    With ambient temp down around freezing cooling shouldn't be a problem even in heavy load situations if the air flow engineering is adequate. Thats very hot air and the contact surface temp of the belt and sheaves will be much higher than the air temp you're reading.
    Actually with the Razor back you are getting a true reading of the belt Itself, not the air temperature inside the CVT.
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    LJ3
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    Now that you have your Razorback temp gauge installed you might want to install an OSP Racing inline CVT fan! I'm sure there are other brands avalible, this is just the one I saw the Adrenalin Junky put on his RZR. I belive they are just inline vent fans for engine compartments on inboard power boats. Just a thought on keeping that belt temp down when you stop.
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    Speed Demon Budro2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ3 View Post
    Now that you have your Razorback temp gauge installed you might want to install an OSP Racing inline CVT fan! I'm sure there are other brands avalible, this is just the one I saw the Adrenalin Junky put on his RZR. I belive they are just inline vent fans for engine compartments on inboard power boats. Just a thought on keeping that belt temp down when you stop.
    Thanks for the info!! Already been researching! That’s next. Looking at it I think it’s going to be best to put it on the exhaust side and vacuum the hot air out. There are 2 good ways to install it that I can see. The intake side doesn’t look to be a viable place to install one. Blowhole has a couple options that should work as well as Alba racing but I’ll check out OSP as well. I’m thinking that it should prevent the belt temp from spiking when motion stops, and it likely will keep the temperature a little lower all the time!
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    I was thinking the same thing...install a fan to suck out the hot air. Good luck!
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    Black Magic
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    What kind of motor are they using for the fan. Amps draw maybe a factor as it it running all the time then. If not then its restricting air flow so its something to consider.

    The Yamaha CVT drive is suppose to be a top notch drive CVT system alway tight belt unlike others including RAZER builds. You get a shot of heat with the snap and grab friction on them but not on the wolverine. The wet clutch is taking care of it here I suspect the spike is due to the drop in air flow. Engineering wise are the belts getting anywhere near the operating spec's and sheaves should have fins on the inner one which fans the air though as its spinning. Thats how my Kingquad works with its always tensioned drive belt and bullet proof as well.

    it begs the question are we overly concerned about something that is well within operating parameters as it is.
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    make sure the motor design parameters are ready for that heat if on exhaust side...….
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    Speed Demon Budro2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimclemjr View Post
    make sure the motor design parameters are ready for that heat if on exhaust side...….
    Good point! I’m sure they are however at least with the blowhole brand. Hunterworks sells them and they are proven in use on both ends. 2 amps at start up and 1.7 continuous. They plug them into the tail light harness and run them continuously. Doesn’t affect the charging system in a negative way! The ducting looks to be nearly double the volume on the intake side as it is on the exhaust side. That’s why I’m thinking it would work best vacuuming out the hot air. It also sucks out dust and keeps the whole CVT cleaner. The Blowholes are designed to be compatible with specific machines based on what kind of CFMs they produce. I have no idea what the wolverine does but I’d think it would be similar to say a Ranger. The Blowholes are anywhere from 140 CFM up 225 for the turbo RZRs. The Alba Racing one is 240 CFM. I’m thinking the more the better but I’m sure there are things going on I don’t understand. The biggest concern has been the fan becoming a restriction on the airflow for high speed drivers so I guess these things are calibrated to suit each machine so as not to be a hindrance. I can’t think of a reason that for a slow mover it would ever be an issue. I just need to get rid of that hot air continuously when I’m in those high load stop and go situations!
    If anyone knows something more I don’t about the matter feel free to chime in but I’ll experiment either way!
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    exhaust tip w/ stock baffle mod, PCV, ais block off plate
    28x10x14 Blackwater Evos 14x7 STI HD3 black gloss wheels,
    2" Gorilla lift- Eibach springs
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